Tiffany Springs Park

[tcarlgren]

Had heard about a proposed use area at Tiffany Springs Park, so I thought I would look into it a little more, below is the response from the KCMO Parks and Rec. I'm keeping my fingers crossed if you know anything about this I would be interested in hearing about it. Looks like it will be discussed in early 08.

Todd,

The proposed OHV area will be more closely evaluated as part of planning process Parks and Recreation will be undertaking in conjunction with the community surrounding Tiffany Springs Park. We anticipate that this planning process will start soon, hopefully in early 2008.

Michael R. Herron, CPRP
North Region Manager
Kansas City, Missouri
Parks and Recreation
(816) 513-7523
Admin. Assistant: Lorri Calandra


11/15/2007 08:32 AM


To

Michael_herron@kcmo.org
Subject

Tiffany Springs Park ?

Michael,

Was curious if there has been any headway in creating
a ORV area at Tiffany Springs Park. Any information
you have would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time.

Todd Carlgren

[troy]

I guess I'm confused. I thought the city already sold/leased that land to "KCI Motorsports Park".
http://www.kcimotorsportspark.com/

See this post from our own Rick McDowell:
http://www.rideforum.net/viewtopic.php? ... race#p3701

[tcarlgren]

I believe what use to be the riding area is south of airport closer to 152 hwy off of NW Hampton Rd. Someone had told me that they use to hold trials competitions there back in the 70's .

Isn't the motorsports park off of N Brighwell Rd and NW 104th?

[KTM250rm]

Missouri Offroad Highway Vehicle Association (MOHVA at http://www.mohva.org) has been working with Mike Herron and KC Parks and Rec for the last 4 years and they had led us to believe that we had obtained land for a riding area at Tiffany Springs, but look at the following information and you can be the judge. Looks like our riding area was given away to a group of people that will be able to bring BIG $$$ to KC Parks and Rec instead of them providing us a place to trail ride.

What do you guys think?

http://www.kcimotorsportspark.com/

The map:
http://www.kcimotorsportspark.com/image ... Design.pdf

It looks like this eliminates our access to any meaningful piece of land around TS.

[Motoracer13]

Ktm thats further north and west of the riding area. If you look on google earth and draw a line from the southern most tip of runway and a line to the baseball feilds to the southwest (they look ike a flower from above) you can see the trails.
I have been up there many times as far back as ten years ago. My mom went and watched my uncle at a trial competition there 30 years ago. The area has alot to offer and a lot of established trails already. I went up there last year and rode for a couple hours and when i got home had to have the wife pull over 50 tics off of me. It was clear that a few people still ride there but not nearly like it use to be. For a few years KCPD had fourwheelers up there giving tickets for trespassing in city parks.
The latest I have heard was that yes they are still working on it but the have it down to only 50 acres(about 400 avaible) and there was 8 users groups that would rotate weekends. Sounds ok at first but think of the diverse nature of the user groups:

walkers/hikers
mountain bikers
horseback riders
atvs and dirtbikes
OHVs-jeeps

They will never mix well and imagine how long 50 acres would last.
I would love to see this area open up but dont think that it will ever happen.

[iyeager]

Not to mention the ATV/motorcycle crowd would end up with eight weekends in the middle of winter.

Ian

[KTM250rm]

Kansas City Parks and Rec was only allowing MOHVA 50 acres to be broken up into separate riding areas for 4x4 trucks and jeeps, atvs, and dirtbikes. We asked for 400 acres and were told to do it in 50 acres and the cost of setting this up and maintaining the area would be the responsibility to the club and only club members would be allowed to ride there.

So don't ever plan on a public riding area at Tiffany Springs or in the Kansas City area because Kansas City Parks and Rec don't want to be responsible for it.

Also attending the meeting was the Tiffany Springs Residents against offroad riding wants to turn the area into walking trails, bicycle trails, and horse riding trails. I hope they raise concerns over a car racing track.

[troy]

At the risk of being flamed, if it's only 50 acres, I'll take walking / bicycle / horse trails instead.

This close to KC metro, 50 acres is ridiculous. It would be completely destroyed in about 2 months--that is, all vegetation stripped bare and erosion problems. There would probably be a dozen injuries in that time period as well. Too much demand--too little space.

So if all we are talking about is 50 acres, I guess I'll choose walking trails--somewhere to take my girl for an easy afternoon hike.

I don't know what the answer is. I also don't understand what the big environmental scares are about. Yes, motorcycles and ATV's tear out the vegetation and you end up with erosion wherever there are trails. Yes, some wildlife is displaced, but I'd argue that very little wildlife actually moves out. I've been tearing through the trails at Milford's School Creek ORV area and come across a family of deer napping under pine trees along the trail---they didn't even run away.

The pattern seems to be that we allow the riding area to get terribly eroded and then shut the area down. I think part of the solution is to treat riding areas like shoes. Everybody knows that two pairs of shoes alternated will last more than twice as long as one pair worn every day. Take 1,000 acres and split it in half. Ride 500 acres for 2 years, then ride the other 500 for 2 years while allowing the first half to re-grow.

I'd also argue that despite all the damage done by offroad traffic, if you close an area, in 10 years, the land will recover in amazing ways. A lot of people are ready to fight to protect 500 acres from being "destroyed" by offroad activities, yet every month another 40 acres is completely cleared for a new suburban housing development. These same people seem to be just fine with covering that 40 acres with concrete, herbicides, and pesticides. It's OK to "destroy" land for your 6 bedroom home, swimming pool, and manicured lawn.

How about golf courses?! A golf course is a purely recreational use of land. Which is a more destructive use of 200 acres? Which displaces more animal life?

• Build trails (basically a minimum amount of clearing) and then riding ATVs and motorcycles on those trails
• Clear almost all vegetation, use bulldozers to completely reshape the landscape, create man-made ponds, and dump thousands of pounds of fertilizer and pesticides

If you said "golf course", give yourself a gold star. Hey, you know how I feel about quadtards, but I'd argue the asshole:acre ratio is greater at the golf course, too.

I don't want every piece of land to be covered with offroad trails. I enjoy hiking trails where I don't have to worry about a motorcycle or ATV flying over the hill. I enjoy the "silence" of nature, too. It's nice to have places where we can go and not listen to motors. But good grief! Kansas has about 81, 815 square miles of land which is about 52, 361,000 acres. Over 52 Million acres! Can't we have a few places with about 500 acres each to enjoy a recreational activity that is very popular with a large percentage of the population?!

I wonder what the actual percentage of the Kansas City Metro area population would be counted among those that enjoy off-road motorized recreation? Maybe part of the problem really is that we simply are not organized and vocal enough. We can sit back and cry about how "they" don't give us trails, but who are "they"? It's OUR government. WE elect those people. HOW do we find about meetings, votes, etc that are of interest to off-road enthusiasts? I usually hear about these things after the fact.

[fatburg]

I'd also argue that despite all the damage done by offroad traffic, if you close an area, in 10 years, the land will recover in amazing ways. A lot of people are ready to fight to protect 500 acres from being "destroyed" by offroad activities, yet every month another 40 acres is completely cleared for a new suburban housing development. These same people seem to be just fine with covering that 40 acres with concrete, herbicides, and pesticides. It's OK to "destroy" land for your 6 bedroom home, swimming pool, and manicured lawn.

And then they will name it Kinsley Forrest

[Motoracer13]

Man Troy, after reading your post (wich I agree with 99 percent-except I also own quads!) you need to go to the gym and blo some steam off or find a happy pill! J/J
I agree that we(orv community) need to be more organized, but when I was part of a fourwheel drive club and they found out about my other offroad toys I suddenly got treated a lot different.

[troy]

Man Troy, after reading your post (wich I agree with 99 percent-except I also own quads!).

My brother owns ATVs as well. I don't own any, but I enjoy riding them, too. Honestly, I should not fall into the trap of using the stereotype. Of course not all ATV riders are disrespectful morons. Also, there are plenty of dirtbike riders who give us a bad name--guys who show no respect for the exhaust decibel restrictions and spark arresters. Or fellow riders who roost us and break out our headlight. (Sorry, KC! ) It hurts us ALL when people are poor citizens.

I truly do think, though, that the stereotype surrounding ATV riders exists for a reason. Allow me to explain. Until recently, I owned a pair of jetskis (wave-runners, personal watercraft, etc.). On the water, jetski riders have similar stereotypes that ATV riders have on land. WHY? Because ATVs and JetSkis are SO EASY TO RIDE. You see, because riding a jetski or ATV requires almost zero skill, any moron can hop on and tear it up. With boating, a normal boat carries a relatively hefty price tag and requires some level of skill to pilot. A jetski, on the other hand, is relatively cheap and you just sit on, pull the trigger, and YEHAWWW! Heck, you don't have to know anything about the rules of the lake or no-wake zones! Same is true with ATVs. My grandma can hop on an ATV and ride it without any prior experience. Motorcycles, on the other hand, require a certain level of skill to ride. It is the price and skill required that weeds out a lot of the morons.

So do I wish ATV and jetskis were harder to ride or more expensive. Heck no! I'm glad they've opened up these recreational opportunities to more people. But the downside is the crowding on the water and the trails and the number of irresponsible people involved.

Side note: Obviously riding an ATV or Jetski well requires skill. But the point is they do not REQUIRE skill to start riding.

[Motoracer13]

Well put about skill levels.
As far as stereo types I don't know that we can do much. Perfect example- I got pulled over within the first 30 days of owning my 07 GSXR 1000. Not for speeding but for no plate, corse the temp tag was under the seat. The first words out of the woman cops mouth was '' I thought you were gonna run!''
I had to hold back '' I thought you were going to get out with a doughnut in your hand.''
People ask me all the time about the show ''Superbikes!'' I hate that show because of the stereo type it gives streetbikes and there riders.

[KTM250rm]

I think we are getting off the subject matter here of the original discussion of Tiffany Springs.

Its amazing, my favorite riding areas are Milford Lake, Perry Lake, and Oakland. Oakland is a very small town just West and North of the Topeka toll booths on I-70 and they have a very nice riding area.

I think each person hear needs to email Mike Herron (Michael_herron@kcmo.org) and give him a piece of their mind about needing a riding area here in KC. Maybe to get our point across, we need to fill his email box with What's happening about TIffany Springs and let him know we need a riding area.

[KTM250rm]

MOHVA (http://www.mohva.org) has gotten a response back from Kansas City Parks and Rec about the proposed riding area at Tiffany Springs and within a few weeks, we are suppose to hear what they have proposed for us. I hope this is not another leg yanking get your hopes up promise from Kansas City Parks and Rec because they have been making promises for the last 5 years now.

I'll let you know if we hear any more from them.

Rick

[troy]

MOHVA (http://www.mohva.org) has gotten a response back from Kansas City Parks and Rec about the proposed riding area at Tiffany Springs and within a few weeks, we are suppose to hear what they have proposed for us...I'll let you know if we hear any more from them.

Please do!