Long Distance Trip Planning

[DonG]

So I am in the process of planning a week or so long trip. I am thinking of going out to Colorado. I am in the process of getting my luggage and what not mounted up. But I have a few questions...

First off, any tips / tricks / suggestions for a first time long distance tripper would be greatly appreciated. I have never done anything like this before, but it is something I have always wanted to do.

I currently have a 90 Street / 10 Offroad give or take tire on a DR650. I am not sure how much gravel I will be on, so I am trying to decided between getting new knobbies and worring about shredding them if I wind up on tarmac for most of the trip, or hating not having knobbies when I wind up spending most of my time on gravel. Having never done anything like this before, I am not sure what I am in for for as far as roads are concerned. I was thinking of maybe hitting Pikes Peak and that area (But I am open to suggestions). I was planning on taking state roads across KS, maybe 36 across the north of the state, or 56 / 50 / 54 / 96 across the south side of the state. I am not really dead set on anything yet. If anyone has a good route, feel free to send it my way.

I was planning on camping, but after talking a little to Edie at the last TARK meeting, I am leaning more towards Best Western type hotels. (I don't own any camping gear, nor am I an avid camper, and I get paranoid out in the country at night ). Anyone have a take or suggestion on Lodging / camping? If I wind up camping, I would have to buy all of the gear I would need, so that factors into the equation.

If I don't get any new tires, that frees up some cash, that I was thinking about putting towards a GPS unit. It looks like most of you guys run hand held units. I have zero experience with them. I don't know what features are have to have, verse nice to have, verse never use. Brands, I see a lot of post for Garmin's. Accessories for the GPS?

I don't really have anything specific planned, other then taking some pictures and riding a lot. I don't even have a date yet. I am trying to get my ducks all in a row first. If some one is planning something similar this summer, I wouldn't mind having some one to ride with either.

Are there any glaringly obvious things that I am missing?

TIA
Don.

[Bob Morgan]

The very first rule of thumb I've heard from several long distance riders is ............................
Bring one fewer pair of socks, and lots more Money!

[bird man]

I have not done very many long trips like you suggest. For a first time personally I would reccomend staying in motels ,especially since you don't have camping gear. Stick to secondary paved roads and leave the 90/10 tires on. A compatible riding buddy will make the trip more enjoyable and safer especially if you have any breakdowns. I have done long trips solo and with buddys , and always had a good time. A long trip on seconday paved roads may not be as challenging as going gravel but there are a lot of sites and culture that can be taken in that you miss on the interstate.
One such trip was to Pikes Peak and the surrounding area. (we stayed in a nice Best Western in Scott City.) While in Scott City we viewed the Monument Rocks also,a short gravel excersion. This fall I needed to go Wi. on business so I took secondary pavement and followed some roads Eddy suggested, we had a wonderful time and met a lot of nice people in the little towns we passed through.
As Bob suggested travel as light as you possibly can.

[safiri]

Probably a little more hard core than what you are planning, but this might help:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159410

As to hotels vs. camping:
- If you are going to be in the high-country and don't mind camping "at large" (not in a campground, no facilities except a mountain stream) then lodging is free. This what I and friends did in that linked report above.
- Forest Service (FS) or BLM campgrounds out in the boonies (but most are auto accessible) typically have a pit toilet and a water pump, figure $10/night although I haven't priced them lately. FS and BLM websites show. As do the FS maps. Worth the $10 each for trip planning. http://www.fs.fed.us/maps/
- Full-service campgrounds (showers, toilets, etc) aren't cheap. Call or get on line and check prices. You may be better off staying at hotels as no gear required.

As to price:
Figure $150 for a decent (small, light) tent, $150 for a good, light, warm sleeping bag (20oF for the mountains), and $80 for a light, compact sleeping pad. Check out Sierra Trading Post or REI Outlet for deals. If you go at-large or FS/BLM, then figure $10/night. Tent, bag, and pad will serve you for many years, BTW. As to packing: figure the tent, bag, pad, and your spare clothes will each by 1/4 of the space required. Adding a small stove, fuel, and pot: almost free. Makes coffee and oatmeal in the mornings very doable. Search for "penny stove" online and hit your kitchen or thrift store for the small pot (cake mixing bowl and your tool kit pliers). BTW, the gear you want is for backpackers, not camping! Camping implies loads of weight hauled in your SUV. Backpacking stuff is more expensive but much lighter and compact.

For hotels and motels in CO ... anywhere near tourists is going to probably be $100 / night. A few nights pays for your camping gear.

KOA / full-service campgrounds: go to a hotel as you aren't saving much and you have no privacy.

As to your unfound fears of bears, etc:
Can't help you.

I go to the mountains to get away from the hordes. Staying in a hotel blows that.

[ajayhawkfan]

The type of trip you take may also help determine whether to camp or motel. You should decide if you are going to ride to one location and make it a base or tour the area never knowing where you are going to stay.

If you set up a base camp (campground or motel) you can haul everything you need to the base, unload it once and explore that area on a unloaded bike. That works very well if camping. You equipment will be unloaded once at camp and you will ride an unloaded bike.

However, if your plan is to be in a different place every night a motel might be a better option. You only have to carry your clothing and you don't have to pack and unpack every day.

For me, I have always ridden from place to place. I try to find a motel that is within walking distance of a place to eat because once I get off my bike for the day, the last thing I want to do is get back on and ride to a restaurant.

Eddie

[jasoomian]

The one thing that I would add about camping vs. Hotel, is, that if you are not an avid camper, or even someone who sometimes enjoys a night out in the woods, I would avoid the camping route and just make your life easier and stay in cheaper hotel/motels. Plus, hotels and motels are everywhere - good camping is sometimes hard to find, or, as I found out last year, are oft full (or just really shitty) when you get there forcing you to go to Campground B. Which you don't have because, well, you didn't make a plan for one. It's now dark, it's cold and wet, and you realize that you don't have a place to sleep, so you point your GPS to the nearest motel/hotel and call it a night.

For me, I love camping, but camping on the bike brings a whole other level of thought and expense to the process - and as others have pointed out - it's expensive (at least at first) to camp by bike. The backpackers adage that "ounces are cheap, grams are expensive" is true to form. But, once you get your gear and get it all sorted out and you like it - camping by motorcycle is very rewarding.

You can take a look at some of my camping by bike photos that shows my old set-up (hammock) I used down in nowhere Oklahoma where my brother decided to buy some land.

I still get creeped out a bit, especially camping there, but, it's not animals that I fear - it's Oklahoma's greatest resource: The Roaming Meth Head that keeps me up at night.

Let me know if you can't see the pictures. But, that album should be public.

[DonG]

Less socks, more cash. Check.

Jasoomain, how do you like the Hennessy Hammock? that is what I was looking at getting instead of a tent.

Mike, thanks for the tip on the Penny stove, and gear suggestions, the back packer gear route was what I was looking at. But I hadn't heard of the Penny stove. BTW I found a good instructable on making one, if any one is interested.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Pocket- ... uotPenny-/
And thanks for the link to your ride report, very cool / awesome write up! How did you get from KC out to Boulder?

I think for this trip, I am going to go with Hotels. And over the winter build up my camping gear. Thanks for the tips on camping. I think I would like to try the whole camping at large, but I would probably get myself eaten by bears, or stay up all night keeping an eye out for space aliens looking to probe some fresh ginger meat, one or the other. I think if I had some one to ride with, I would be less afraid to camp, doing it all alone, with out really knowing what I am doing I think is asking for a bad time.

Edie, thanks for the hub and spoke vs point to point suggestion. I will keep that in mind while I am planning.

Any one have any tips / suggestions on GPS units? What are you using, do you like it, is there another one you wish you would have gotten, have a good (ie: functional) one you are upgrading from and need to sell it?

Any one else want to go for a ride some time this summer?

Thanks
d.

[jasoomian]

Jasoomain, how do you like the Hennessy Hammock? that is what I was looking at getting instead of a tent.

As for the Hennesey - I hated it. Not that the quality was bad, or I didn't like sleeping in a hammock - I love sleeping in hammocks - they are awesome.

However, the Hennesey has a flaw in it's design that I should have picked up on earlier. You enter the Hennesey through the bottom. If you've looked into buying one, I am sure you know what I am talking about. While great in theory, getting into a SLEEPING BAG after you crawled through the bottom, pushed the bag out of your way to do so, closed the bottom, and then get back into your bag - is a pain in the butt. So much so, that, once I was in, I stayed in - bladder be damned. Also, I about damn near froze my butt off in the thing - sleeping bags offer great insulation, when their filler is not compressed by, oh, I don't know say 200# of me lying on top of it. Even though the nightly temp was only down to mid 50's, I was really cold in my 20 degree bag.

I returned the hammock and have been tent camping since.

However (again!) I want to get another hammock, this time going with the Warbonnet Blackbird instead. Not only do you enter from the 'top', but, it also has a 'sleeve' that you put your sleeping pad or whatever, into, so that you get the benefit of warding off the chill and not having to worry about stuffing something else inside the hammock. The BlackBird is a bit more pricey than the Hennesey, especially considering the rain-fly is sold separately. It rigs very similar to the Hennesey, and the fine folks over at HammockForums.net have tons of tips and tricks to get the right 'hang' and what knots and slings and other voodoo you need to make sure you have a solid bed for the evening.

Now, these are my own thoughts on the Hennesey - other people love them. My attempt is not to sway or degrade anyone from buying anything. But, I will say this - those Rappell rings you see in the photos? Makes setting up the hammock about a thirty second process.

I am sure the same process can be used for the BlackBird -just haven't tried it yet. I hope to get one this Spring.

So much less gear to bring with you using the hammock that it's hard to find a reason to NOT camp by hammock.

Although, it does bring the whole, what happens if I can't find a tree to hang it from issue, or, the whole 'never pitch your tent under a tree thing I learned in Boy Scouts. But, there is a give and take in everything. Pick your battles.

[DonG]

WOW. Thank you for the detailed response. I was kind of wondering about the bottom entry on those and getting in and out with a bag and what not. The Warbonnet looks very nice, expensive, but very nice. And thank you for the repel rings tip, and hammock forum link. I will definitely keep that all in mind when I get a camping set up.

Thank you.

[jasoomian]

Happy to share, although I learned most of everything I wanted to know about hammock camping from this feller: shugemery.

He's got a few series devoted to hammocks that have some pretty informative stuff - for example: shug likes to camp in below freezing weather, the colder the better, and he offers some great insight and products on how to keep warm in your hammock. Check out some of the playlists on the right hand of the page. He's a backpacker and clown by trade and his insights into equipment tend to lean to the backpacking side of things - which is great, because that's what you want - light, warm and easily packed away on the bike.

While he has a ton of videos, these are the playlists that I found most informative that might relate to hammock camping and camping by bike.

Hammocks How-To for Noobs
Hammock Under-Quilts and Warmth
Hammock Various Stuff
Stoves, Cook Kits & Meals

From the last video series, I made the little pot cozy - works great.

[jasoomian]

Any one have any tips / suggestions on GPS units? What are you using, do you like it, is there another one you wish you would have gotten, have a good (ie: functional) one you are upgrading from and need to sell it?

Most of the folks that I have ridden with that prowl these parts, roll with the Garmin 260c or 260cx, or, Eddie with the Garmin Montana. I am sure they are great. They have all told me so many, many times.

Since I'm cheap, I use a Garmin Nuvi 755. It's not as fancy as the 260series or the Montana, and doesn't have all the bells and whistles that I would like (like the ability to drop a waypoint on the fly) but, it was 79.00 and has fared well for the last three years. Yes, it's not built to handle the vibration like the Zumos', yes it is not waterproof, and yes you can't see a damn thing on it in bright sunlight, and yes it probably won't last as long as a GPS specifically built for outdoor use, but, what it does have (aside from the cheap price tag) is the ability for me to load a route (not tracks) from BaseCamp and import it into my GPS. Which I like. While I can't import tracks, I can always pull the tracks off of it when I get home and use those elsewhere.

Since I can't see the GPS in bright sunlight, I rely on verbal cues to get me where I am going, which is fine because I have a fat SD card in it for extra maps and MP3's and just run some headphones under my helmet. Illegal? Probably. Slightly dangerous? Probably. But, damnit - it works!

Just my .02

Others may feel differently, but, they were the ones making fun of my neon-green riding suit! So, I don't listen to them anymore

[safiri]

I am in full agreement that if you aren't camping now, you probably won't off of a bike. But once you have camping figured out, camping off the bike frees you up to travel until you are tired (when in the CO backcountry that has at-large camping) and it saves you mucho $$. $80 per night for 5 nights has more than paid for camping gear. Heck, $80 for three nights, with a hotel every other to get a hot shower, has bought much of your gear.

As to GPS:
There have been threads on this ... too busy to search. IIRC, the Nuvi does not allow you to build/import routes. Zumo series is MC specific, but IIRC much like the Nuvi in its limitations. Many here use the 60 and 62 series and have had good luck with them. Dakota and Montana look good, too.

Garmin handhelds: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145

[DonG]

I tried looking around for the GPS threads, but I think I was looking in the wrong spot, or suck at searching. Either way, I will search some more, because I remember seeing them too.

thanks.

[Andy]

Looks like everyone else pretty much covered the camping vs hotel thing. I would like to add that as far as camping gear goes, Campmor is also a good place to get gear. I found a couple of mil surplus full-length thermarests there a while back for like $40 each. Sure they're OD green, but...they're so comfy!

On tires, both of my trips thus far, which have been like 90% pavement, I did on Shinko 244's. I don't mind them on road, and they really do pretty well in the twisties, and they're pretty decent on dirt. They're also super cheap.

Colorado has a ton of amazing stuff to see. Lots of it, especially in the summer, is crowded with tourists. I found that the easiest way for me to get away from them was to find low maintenance county and forest roads on google maps. They usually lead somewhere interesting, and they are at least maintained well enough to do alone. Probably my favorite day on my first trip was from Kremmeling, CO to Aspen, CO. Co Rd 1/ Trough Rd south out of Kremmeling to State Bridge is easy gravel, but has some pretty nice views. From State Bridge to Eagle was blacktop. At Eagle I went south along Brush Creek Rd over Crooked Creek Pass, which was beautiful, especially on the way down from the pass. Next I caught Frying Pan Rd, and followed that East until I got off on Forest Road 105, which took me up and over Hagerman Pass and down into Leadville, CO. From there, I took pavement over Independence Pass and into Aspen, where I stayed the night at Difficult campground on the outskirts of town (Don't stay in a Hotel there, Aspen is rediculously expensive, but they do have motorcycle parking!)

Other spots I enjoyed in Colorado were the gravel road from somewhere west of Aspen to Crested Butte, and the area around Silverton. Big Thompson Canyon from Loveland to Estes Park is a lot of fun, but also has tons of traffic. Rocky Mountain National Park is also very pretty. There's a zillion good roads to ride there in all parts of the state, its worthwhile to spend some time on google to figure out a route though.

On GPS's, I have a Zumo, and I really like it. Its especially fantastic for finding food that you actually want to eat in places that are unfamiliar. I also used it for finding McDonalds and Starbucks for their free wifi.

I also like to use the base-camp method of exploring as well. There are many areas (like the black hills), where you can camp for a couple days in a nice spot, and explore at will without having to lug all your junk along. Sometimes point-to-point is more appropriate though, especially if you're actually trying to go somewhere.

Lastly, biggest piece of advice I have, is to know your limits. Its easy to get down a dirt road towards dusk while tired and get in over your head in a hurry, especially when riding solo.

[DonG]

Thank you Andy.

Eddie, Andy, or any one else with a touch screen Garmin, do they work with gloves on? I am looking at either the Oregon 450, or the 62s...

Thanks
d.

[safiri]

Used Google to find the GPS thread:
http://www.rideforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1363

I may sticky it ...

[DonG]

Thanks for digging that up mike. I spent about 3 or 4 hours on Google last night looking at GPS (and several more this morning), but I didn't come across that thread. I read through that thread, but I never saw any one mention if the touch screen models work with gloves on or not. I found some other reviews mentioning gloves and the touch screen, some say yes, some say no. Probably like my phone, depends on the gloves you are wearing.

I saw mention in that thread about the eTrex as well. It looks like a 62, with a different antenna design and the buttons on the side, instead of on the front. I wonder how much of a PITA that would make it to use on the fly.

The 62S looks like it does everything the 60CSx does plus a bunch more, just minus some built in internal memory, but they both have mSD card slots, so that isn't really an issue. They look similar in form fashion, not sure if that means the new one is as rugged as the old one, some reviews I found would indicate it is.

I think the Oregon is pretty similar to the Montana, save a smaller screen, and lower price point. I'm not sure of the ruggedness of it compared to the 62 though.

It looks like all three of these units are pretty close in features and price. The main difference I can is touch screen vs front facing buttons vs side mounted buttons. Anything else I am missing? Reading the reviews it sounds like there are other difference, in software and function and the "feel" / "use". So I think I need to get my hands on them all to really decide. I think I am leaning towards the 62s or the eTrex 30. I think the touch screen on the Oregon would be more of a hassle then a benefit?

Thanks
d.

[allkidd]

A little over a year ago I also made the move to my first GPS. Based on research, including this ride forum discussion....http://www.rideforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1363...I pretty much determined that the Garmin Montana was the best dual sport motorcycle GPS. Of course, it is also one of the most expensive. Totally out of character for me I bit the bullet and purchased the more expensive Montana. So many times, trying to save money, I buy the cheaper product only to be frustrated with a product that doesn't work as well.

At this point I'm very happy that I spent the extra $$$ to get the Montana. It works great with my riding gloves on but the best part is the larger, clear screen. I've observed other people having difficulty trying to maneuver the cursor toggle with a little screen. While riding, I can easily see the screen and with the touch screen can more easily look at the bigger picture. For sure the Montana has been worth the extra money.

I've struggled with the camping thing. I really wish that I could enjoy sleeping on the ground, typically in the rain, and eating bland, boiled pre-packaged freeze dried food. Not to mention the hot, cold, bugs, no shower, no toilet, mud, dust, grime, dark, coyotes, bears, packing, un-packing, can't find things, dead flashlight batteries etc. So, my compromise money wise is to use priceline.com. My one solo trip, I used priceline each of the 3 nights for lodging. You don't know the exact motel but you do know the rate. When by myself I don't need much in the way of amenities and in small towns you can usually determine where you will be staying anyway. My 3 nights in Arkansas I averaged $40/night for lodging using priceline. They were always within walking distance of restaurants and rooms were always clean and climate controlled. I guess the downside is that you may have to ride a short distance out of your way to get to a town. In most places in Colorado this should never be more than 10-20 miles.

[troy]

I'm late to the party, and probably have nothing to add--lots of great responses.

I've not been able to do any truly "long" moto-road trips. Best I've been able to do are 3 day adventures either solo or with a small group. Like birdman, I've enjoyed both the solo and group thing. Obviously if you ride with a buddy or 2 you gain some safety padding. I've enjoyed my solo trips just as much--kind of a spirit journey thing. I can say that the magic number is 2. The best moto-trips I've had are when it's just me and a buddy. You get the safety of numbers without the groupthink. Having someone who shared the experience makes it fun to reminisce for years to come.

I have a basic moto-camping kit for the bike and have used it, but I'm not into camping. Moto-camping for me is simply somewhere to sleep. I don't "set up camp" beyond throwing the tent and bag down. I don't cook any meals at camp either. However, if you want to enjoy an epic adventure like safiri did, eating some meals in camp is the only way to make that work. It's something I'd be willing to do for a trip of that nature, but not something I choose to do if a $5 to $10 meal is nearby at a cafe.

As for tires....for me, the best parts of the journey are off pavement. I find that dualsport knobbies work just fine on pavement while offering a much improved experience on gravel compared to a "50/50" dualsport tire. Of course you'll wear that knobbie down fast on pavement. It's probably not possible to ride pavement all the way out to the Rockies and back on pavement with a knobbie and expect the tire to last for the trip? For this reason, I would not be ashamed to haul my motorcycle to the Rockies for a week of riding. However, if I had the time to take the long way out and back, I'd ride.

Regarding GPS
For your trip, I think you'll want a larger screen than the small handheld models. I love my 60CS, but it's not a great road-trip GPS. It's great for my off-road adventures mainly because it can take the abuse. Most important thing for a big road trip is to make sure you have good maps loaded with lots of POI data so, like allkidd said, you can find motels and cafes, etc. Garmin is not the only game in town, but it's what most every body uses, so I recommend it if you want tech help from friends and forum members.

RideForum.NET search tip
Use Google by entering your search term(s) followed by site:rideforum.net

This will limit results to our forum. It works WAY better than the forum's built-in search tool.

[DonG]

I've struggled with the camping thing. I really wish that I could enjoy sleeping on the ground, typically in the rain, and eating bland, boiled pre-packaged freeze dried food. Not to mention the hot, cold, bugs, no shower, no toilet, mud, dust, grime, dark, coyotes, bears, packing, un-packing, can't find things, dead flashlight batteries etc.

I struggle with the same thing when it comes to camping. But then I see the stuff like Safari Mike's ride report, and some of the picks I see from backpackers out in the middle of no where and it really strikes me as something I want to experience. I just need to get over my paranoia. LOL. I read your GPS thread and got a lot of good info out of it, thanks.

I am going to wait until I get my hands on them before I make a decision. I think Like troy said, I will stick with Garmin, since that seams to be what every one else is using and that always makes it easier to share info / get advice.

I would really like to go with some one, but none of my friends that live in KC ride, and my friends that do ride, want to trailer everything out, and ride their quads around. Plus the one who rides a street bike, has an an canny ability to really piss people off that we meet when we go out.

I currently have Shinko E 705's on the Bike, and they do okay on gravel and dirt. They SUCK in the snow. I was looking at the Michelin T63, but it will have to wait. I am not sure how they hold up on tarmac.

I appreciate all the feedback, you all have helped me figure a lot out.

Thank you.
d.