Midwest Dualsport Motorcycle Community 

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 #5600  by Motoracer13
 09 Aug 2008 16:01
I know this has been talked about before but here we go again...

KC Parks and Rec is conducting a OHV Park Feasibility Study for the Tiffany Springs Park area. This study is to determine IF a OHV park is an appropriate use for the Tiffany Springs Park.

They are conducting the following conducting meetings:
8/20 - 6:30pm Focus: ATV and OHV Users
8/21 - 6:30pm Focus: Motorcycle and Mountain Bike Users
8/22 - 6:30pm Focus: 4wd Users

Meeting Location:
WSKF Architects, Inc.
110 Armour Rd.
North Kansas City, MO 64116
 #5610  by KTM250rm
 11 Aug 2008 17:33
I'm amazed. I'm a member of the MOHVA and we have been having meetings and working directly with KCPR on this riding area and we didn't even get notified of this meeting.

I wonder if this is open to the public to attend? I guess we need to call the number and if its open to the public, WE NEED TO ATTEND. I plan on being there if my new job hours don't interfer as I'm switching from 3rd shift to 2nd shift.

 #5611  by Hank Moody
 11 Aug 2008 20:35
I plan on attending the meeting on the 21st. Living only a few away from this area I sure have an interest in seeing opened up to motorcycles.
 #5613  by Motoracer13
 11 Aug 2008 20:54
I plan on going but it is a long time away for my railroad schedule. I hope I'm in town!
 #5614  by safiri
 11 Aug 2008 21:50
Motoracer13 wrote:They are conducting the following conducting meetings:
8/20 - 6:30pm Focus: ATV and OHV Users
8/21 - 6:30pm Focus: Motorcycle and Mountain Bike Users
8/22 - 6:30pm Focus: 4wd Users
The groups have me a bit confused ... I thought OHV was the all inclusive term for dirt bikes, ATVs, and 4wd motorized vehicles?

I ride both dirt bikes and MTB ... not sure those two groups are going to get along. Both want single track, but I don't want the other on the trail while I am on it (either way ... a dirt bike coming up on a bicycle or vice versa on a tight trail doesn't seem like a good idea).

I guess make sure to keep it civil, don't get into any arguments, keep the loudness down ... I guess I had better not show up. :wink:
 #5622  by KTM250rm
 12 Aug 2008 19:26
In the last meeting we had with KCPR which was early this year, it was established there would be designated riding areas for each of the groups, but then they told us we would only get 50 of the original 500 acres and we said that would be impossible.

 #5659  by Hank Moody
 20 Aug 2008 06:58
Sorry I won't be able to make the meeting after all. Cub Scout packing meeting tomorrow. If anyone goes please update the board with what went on.
 #5669  by tcarlgren
 22 Aug 2008 08:20
I attended the meeting last night. Basically parks and rec is doing a feasibility study to see if Tiffany Springs or any other parks for that matter would be a good fit for an OHV area. Those in attendance suggested what they would like to see in the park. The organizer is going to compile the notes and send those to us in attendance, I will share those with you when I receive them. Hopefully some form of an OHV area will be included in the master plan for Tiffany Springs. Ultimately there will have to be an organized group set up to run and maintain the park. Currently it sounds like the biggest hurdle will be insurance especially when you introduce motorized vehicles.
 #5670  by KTM250rm
 22 Aug 2008 09:59
I sure hope KCPR pulls through this time because they have been making promises of having a riding area in KC for the last 6 years.
 #5738  by tcarlgren
 29 Aug 2008 16:19
August 29, 2008
Kansas City, Missouri; Department of Parks and Recreation, is conducting an Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV)
Park Feasibility study for the Tiffany Springs Park area. This study is to determine IF an OHV park is
an appropriate use for the Tiffany Springs Park. Criteria developed through this study will be used for
future OHV park proposals and master plans in Kansas City, Missouri. WSKF Architects, Inc. has been
retained by the Department of Parks and Recreation to develop the feasibility study.
We will be conducting public meetings with stakeholders to review developed criteria for OHV use areas,
to gain feedback on uses proposed and design features anticipated.
Please join us on one of the following dates to familiarize yourself with the criteria being developed and
communicate your ideas for the study. We will hold three meetings, each of which will be located at the
office of WSKF Architects, North Kansas City, Missouri. Each meeting is open to the public.
Dr. Charles R. McKenzie has been retained by WSKF as an OHV consultant and will be present to answer
and direct questions. Dr. McKenzie, who is a Professor Emeritus at Missouri State University, specializes
in trail design and construction consultation. He is the state’s representative to the National Off-Highway
Vehicle Conservation Council, and the founding president of the Missouri Off-Highway Vehicle Alliance.
He also acts as the President of the Ozark Trails ATV Club, and is currently on two advisory boards for
Missouri Trails. Dr. McKenzie is a Trail Maintenance Volunteer for the Mark Twain National Forest as
well as an ATV Safety Instructor. We look forward to working with Dr. McKenzie on our feasibility study.

Meeting Schedule:

Thursday, September 11th 6:30 p.m.
Thursday, September 25th 6:30 p.m.
Tuesday, October 7th 6:30 p.m.

Meeting Location:
WSKF Architects, Inc.
110 Armour Road
North Kansas City, Missouri 64116
We hope to see you there!
 #5816  by tcarlgren
 08 Sep 2008 14:55
The location of the upcoming meetings have changed. The new meeting location will be the Kansas City North Community Center located at 3930 NE Antioch Road.
 #5817  by troy
 08 Sep 2008 15:28
tcarlgren wrote:The location of the upcoming meetings have changed. The new meeting location will be the Kansas City North Community Center located at 3930 NE Antioch Road.
Thank you for sharing this. Where are you getting this information? I'm wondering what list I'm NOT on that you apparently are. I signed up for a mailing list over a year ago to be notified of any progress towards getting Tiffany Springs back as a riding area. Nada.
 #5820  by tcarlgren
 08 Sep 2008 17:04
I attended the meeting on 8/21 so have been getting emails from WSKF who is heading up the study. I plan on going to the meeting on Oct 7th.
 #5849  by troy
 11 Sep 2008 17:54
I am heading to the meeting tonight in 30 minutes. I'll report back what I learn.
 #5850  by troy
 12 Sep 2008 08:32
The meeting was attended by fewer than 20 people. I found it interesting and am glad I attended.

The KC Parks Dept has contracted WSKF Architects to conduct a "feasibility study" regarding OHV use in Tiffany Springs Park. WSKF was involved in planning the original master plan for the park which includes a golf course, etc. Currently the park has ball fields and a parking lot and not much else.

WSKF has contracted Dr. Charles McKenzie, a trail design and construction expert from Missouri. Dr. McKenzie was present and answered some questions, but the meeting was directed mostly by John Freshnock of WSKF and the representative of the Parks Dept. (I failed to write down his name.)

They had 4 large poster-board graphics on display as well as a large aerial map of the area. Two of the graphics were designed to list all the various types of OHV use being considered and compared each of the types with the others indicating a color-coded compatibility level. For example, the graphic showed that motorcross racing and equestrian use are incompatible while mountain bicycle trail-riding and trail-riding ATV use are compatible.

The first three meetings held by WSKF were target specifically at the OHV groups to determine the types of use and requirements each group has. I believe WSKF accomplished that goal. I was happy to see the granularity of OHV use they recognized. For example, they included "trials motorcycles" in the list of possible uses and understood the requirements and impact this group would have. The next three meetings, the first of which I attended last night, are aimed more at the general public. As John told me, they expect these meetings to include the "NIMBY crowd". (Not in my backyard!) The NIMBY crowd was definitely present at the meeting and made their concerns known.

Some of the concerns raised were the "green trail system" master plan in the Northland. I had never heard of this, but it is a plan to join together trails and parks in Parkville, Kansas City, Platte City, etc. Sounds great. Much of the system already exists. This system is proposed to join into Tiffany Springs Park, and the concern was whether the OHV trail system would be an obstacle for the overall green trail system. Increased traffic, safety, and noise were all concerns as well.

One of the graphics listed:
  • 15 acres: OHV Multi-Use
  • 8 miles: Motorcycle / Mountain Bike
  • 8 miles: ATV/UTV
  • 20 acres: 4WD Rock Crawl
  • 5 acres: Trials Motorcycle/Trials Bicycle
They were talking about perhaps less than 300 acres total that could be used for OHV trails. I found it hard to believe all of items in the list above could be packed into 300 acres. A member of the NIMBY crowd was quick to point this out. Neither WSKF nor Dr. McKenzie had any real answers for the questions and concerns. It was clear their goal was just to get people to talk so they could take notes--research for the feasibility study.

The KC Jeeps club was VERY well represented. They had 5 members their, were well dressed well spoken. They clearly had some strategy going into this. They spent a great deal of time educating the room about their tread-lightly mantra and the nature of their sport. The Parks Dept even brought up the fact the club events have their own "marshall" to "police" over the members.

Kware & I were the only people present representing any motorcycle-related use.

Honestly, it is my opinion that the Tiffany Springs park is simply too small to support ATV and motorcycle use in addition to the other uses. 300 or less acres is simply too small to support the huge KC metro area. Although it pains me to say it, I have to honestly agree with most of the concerns raised by the NIMBY crowd when it comes to the ATV and dirt motorcycle riding community at large. We (as a whole thanks to the bad apples) are our own worst enemy.

The way the entire process works is this:
  • Through some formal process, somebody requested OHV use in Tiffany Springs.
  • With sufficient funding, the Parks Dept contracts WSKF to do feasibility study.
  • WSKF researches the area and holds public meetings.
  • WSKF makes their recommendations to the Parks Dept.
  • If WSKF's recommendation is pro-OHV use, the Parks staff makes their recommendation to the Parks board.
  • It becomes an amendment to the master plan and goes up for a YES/NO vote.
  • If voted YES, this only means the area has been approved for OHV use. It does not mean any funding or plan exists to actually develop an OHV area.
  • It would then go back to the OHV interest groups to recommend how to develop the area and figure out the funding.
 #5853  by tp_cracker
 12 Sep 2008 10:30
Funding? By the KC Parks Board? They can't even afford to mow the grass at Hodge Park baseball fields. They reminded me of brome fields back on the farm. When they finally mowed them, they could have brought in a bailer and fed a few hundred head of cows for quite a while. A lot of coaches would bring their own mower to practice to cut a few swathes in the outfield just so they could retrieve half of their baseballs. So, all I gotta say is, Good Luck With The Funding.
 #5865  by KTM250rm
 15 Sep 2008 13:19
Lets see, it was 500 acres to be used for offroad riding 5 years ago, last year it was reduced to 50 acres, now its 15 acres, who are they kidding, but KC Parks and Recs sure complains about how much illegal offroad riding is tearing up their other parks. I wished I would of kept those articles that were published 4-5 years ago in the KC Star telling about the great plans to have OHV parks in Kansas City, so we are no closer than what we were 5 years ago.

I know KC Parks and Rec has more property, 1000's of acres that can't be used for anything and they just let it grow up in weeds and brush.