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Wow. you guys have been busy. I took a vacation day today and tomorrow and hope to be riding by midday. The last of my parts showed up this morning just in time. In another 20k or so I may have to start looking for a new one.

safiri wrote:Ok, so it's my fault!

It's pretty much ALL your fault! You forced me to buy the same GPS (60CS). You forced me to buy the TOPO maps. You forced me to ride over to your house so you could custom manufacture the power cable to wire my GPS to my bike. You demonstrated how to use the software. Can't you just let me be?!

Thanks for the info Troy. When we do the Arkansas ride we invariably have someone with a magellan GPS. Hopefully with the GPX format I can offer a download into their units.
I browsed the Marengo site last night. I'll have to give it a try. I scrolled to Arkansas and found out the detail was not as complete (only indentified larger towns, Cass and Oark didn't show). Of course that's been a problem with many mapping software for this state. I think it could work well to create the route in Marengo, hopefully Mapsource will fill in the missing data.

MacWildcat wrote:Thanks for the info Troy. When we do the Arkansas ride we invariably have someone with a magellan GPS. Hopefully with the GPX format I can offer a download into their units.
I browsed the Marengo site last night. I'll have to give it a try. I scrolled to Arkansas and found out the detail was not as complete (only indentified larger towns, Cass and Oark didn't show). Of course that's been a problem with many mapping software for this state. I think it could work well to create the route in Marengo, hopefully Mapsource will fill in the missing data.

Remember that all you get out of Marengo when you export the GPX text is the route itself---no map detail. The actual map detail you end up with on your GPS still depends on whatever map products you are using with your unit---one of the many MapSource products for Garmin. You'll create the route in Marengo, then open the GPX file in MapSource (or whatever software you use with your unit) and then select the appropriate maps and then upload to your unit.

I've spent a few hours building routes in the area around Cass and regardless of what product I'm using---try to find Cass or Oark on a map! It's difficult! Of course the more you zoom in the more detail you see up to a point---at least all (most?) of the actual roads show.

There is nothing you can do with Marengo that you can't do with MapSource other than view the Satellite images I guess, but I find the Satellite imagery to be very beneficial--depending on the quality of the images for the area I'm working in. I also find the interface--the zooming, moving around, adding and removing points to be much easier and faster than MapSource. I also like that along the right side you can see at all times how many miles your route is as you build it.

Another note--I'm not completely clear on this subject--but I've received route files from people where every point in the route is a "Waypoint". When I create routes--and the routes you get out of Marengo--the points are "Route points". At least with my Garmin GPSMap 60CS, the difference is that route points display very small--they do not take up the visual space of Waypoints. Also, I have a 1000 Waypoint limit. It's easy for 3 days worth of routes to have more than 1000 points in the routes. There appears to be no hard-limit on route points. For me, a "Waypoint" is to mark a special point of interest (POI). So I may create a 200 mile route with 117 route points and I may add in a few Waypoints to indicate things such as "Lunch stop", "Stone arch bridge", etc.

I had one person tell me they use Waypoints to build routes because then you can name them in order of the route numerically which lets you tell someone, meet me at Waypoint #48. However, Route Points work exactly this same way--you can name them. In Marengo, when you export the GPX text, it auto-names your unnamed points numerically. I like that and so don't bother naming my points myself.

I suppose some of these differences are in how the various software and units treat the different kinds of points. These things are becoming more standardized all the time, though, and that is a good thing in my opinion.

I did like the satellite view, really looks useful if you are not using a a topo program. I'll have to give Marengo a try this weekend while the snow is blowing.
I'm pretty sure I'm building routes using route points. I'm also using waypoints as a way to mark special points of interest
Been looking thinking a purchasing a new GPS. Im using a B/W Etrex. The little joystick is starting to malfunction. Thought about getting one of the new color Etrex units. I definitely think a color unit would be nice. How do you like the 60cs? unit? It looked like the screen may be a little larger.

troy wrote:ajayhawkfan,

I was trying to checkout some of your tips, but apparently I don't have the same software you do. You mention "City Navigator" and a Routing tab. I don't have a product named City Navigator. The installed product I have calls itself simply "MapSource" although I swear the CD is titled "Trip & Waypoint Manager". I dug around and found that I do not have the Routing tab or the features you explained...they sound like good features.

I have those features because I have "City Navigator, North America NT V8" along with the TOPO maps. You can't auto route with only the TOPO maps.

I believe you said you have a 60CX. With that unit you can use "City Navigator, North America, V8" (not NT V8) or the old software "CITY SELECT NAVIGATOR N. AMERICA (any version)" and have the same features I described.

I think if you gave it a try you might really like it. I'm happy to show you if you would like.

I noticed you can buy New City Select for not much. However If you buy used software make sure it includes a registration code because version 5 or higher can only be opened twice.

Eddie

MacWildcat wrote:I definitely think a color unit would be nice. How do you like the 60cs? unit? It looked like the screen may be a little larger.

This is a personal choice and also depends on EXACTLY how you like to use a GPS unit. Also, I do not actually have experience with any other GPS units other than 30 seconds here and there and the comments I hear from people who own other units.

IN MY OPINION, my Garmin GPSMap 60CS (60C, 60Cx, 60CSx) is the perfect unit for dualsport motorcycling and geocaching. It is a large enough to make the screen easy to read and the buttons are large enough you can operate it with gloves on. The unit is very rugged and water proof (to some degree). The screen is bright enough for daylight viewing and the night-mode is very nice, too. The glass seems very scratch resistant. The unit size and shape is comfortable on my handlebars or in my hand (when geocaching). I am very, very satisfied with the purchase. Again..I've not really used any others.

As a testimony to durability, safiri has had his 60CS mounted on his motorcycles for quite some time. (2 years?) He has beat the CRAP out of that thing including some wrecks and dunks in creek crossings. It is still working well.

I don't remember what the battery life of my 60CS is claimed to be. It takes 2 AA. I think I've changed the batteries in mine only once since I purchased it! I have 12V power when mounted on my bike, but I often run on batteries when geocaching or transferring data connected to PC. The battery life seems very good.

As for memory on the 60CS, it is something like 56MB. What I know is that I can load an entire state of TOPO maps (depending on the state of course). So for my dualsport adventures, it holds more than I need. Now the 60CS is no longer available except for old stock. The replacement is the 60CSx and features expandable memory (with SD cards I think). So if you were, say, doing the entire TAT, you could bring all the maps you need on tiny SD cards and load them as you need them.

Mike, can you explain for the people what the "S" in the model name means. Is it the barometer functionality?

Now if somebody said they wanted the best GPS for moving between their motorcycle and car, I might have to consider a larger unit with more built-in memory (load more maps at one time) and voice prompts, etc. But my advice would be to get 2 units if at all possible.

MacWildcat wrote:I did like the satellite view, really looks useful if you are not using a a topo program. I'll have to give Marengo a try this weekend while the snow is blowing.
I'm pretty sure I'm building routes using route points. I'm also using waypoints as a way to mark special points of interest
Been looking thinking a purchasing a new GPS. Im using a B/W Etrex. The little joystick is starting to malfunction. Thought about getting one of the new color Etrex units. I definitely think a color unit would be nice. How do you like the 60cs? unit? It looked like the screen may be a little larger.

I believe the 60CS are discontinued. The new product is the 60CSx and it is great! I replaced the 56k memory card with a 2 gig and I can hold the entire City Navagator map sets and almost all of the TOPO maps and all the waypoints you could ever desire.

If you get a 60 you will also need map software and and a mount. Darrel at tvnav.com will make you a good deal on everything you need. You may be able to get it cheaper at a big box store but they will never match his service and knowledge.

ajayhawkfan wrote:Our offices are not far apart. Lets get together for lunch soon and I'll bring my laptop and show you how it works.

I am fairly flexible with lunch, but rather than be rushed, would you be open to doing an afterwork get together? If so, tell me what time works for you. We could meet at the Latte Land in Briarcliffe Village. We'd have free wi-fi in case we want to use that. I'll bring my laptop, too, and that way I can compare the features of the software.

Does Tuesday work for you?

I assume you'd be open to anyone else who'd want to join us? One of my coworkers is a new convert to GPS and geocaching. He'd probably want to join in for the learning, too. I can ask Latte Land for use of their little conference room...it is free as long as we buy overpriced drinks.

I'm excited to learn from you on this subject because I know you have extensive experience in this area.

troy wrote: Another note--I'm not completely clear on this subject--but I've received route files from people where every point in the route is a "Waypoint". When I create routes--and the routes you get out of Marengo--the points are "Route points". At least with my Garmin GPSMap 60CS, the difference is that route points display very small--they do not take up the visual space of Waypoints. Also, I have a 1000 Waypoint limit. It's easy for 3 days worth of routes to have more than 1000 points in the routes. There appears to be no hard-limit on route points. For me, a "Waypoint" is to mark a special point of interest (POI). So I may create a 200 mile route with 117 route points and I may add in a few Waypoints to indicate things such as "Lunch stop", "Stone arch bridge", etc.

I had one person tell me they use Waypoints to build routes because then you can name them in order of the route numerically which lets you tell someone, meet me at Waypoint #48. However, Route Points work exactly this same way--you can name them. In Marengo, when you export the GPX text, it auto-names your unnamed points numerically. I like that and so don't bother naming my points myself.

At least with Garmin MapSource, you (or at least I) cannot get the name of the WAYPOINT to not show on the map printout. Often these names will hide the actual route on the printout. I like to be able to print out the map of the route for me and others on the ride. This, to me, is reason enough to use Route PoiROUTE POITNS.

Add in that older GPSs (Garmin V comes to mind) have relatively low limits on number of WAYPOINTS (250 or 500) but no (or a very high) limit on ROUTE POINTS, and the reason to use ROUTE POINTS becomes even clearer.

safiri wrote:At least with Garmin MapSource, you (or at least I) cannot get the name of the WAYPOINT to not show on the map printout.

Mike, last night while trying to checkout the features Eddie has been talking about, I noticed under Edit, Preferences a checkbox option to turn on or off Waypoint names. I'll look again tonight when I get home.

troy wrote:

ajayhawkfan wrote:Our offices are not far apart. Lets get together for lunch soon and I'll bring my laptop and show you how it works.

I am fairly flexible with lunch, but rather than be rushed, would you be open to doing an afterwork get together? If so, tell me what time works for you. We could meet at the Latte Land in Briarcliffe Village. We'd have free wi-fi in case we want to use that. I'll bring my laptop, too, and that way I can compare the features of the software.

Does Tuesday work for you?

I assume you'd be open to anyone else who'd want to join us? One of my coworkers is a new convert to GPS and geocaching. He'd probably want to join in for the learning, too. I can ask Latte Land for use of their little conference room...it is free as long as we buy overpriced drinks.

I'm excited to learn from you on this subject because I know you have extensive experience in this area.

Of couse anyone would be welcome to attend. I enjoy working with anyone interested in caching. I know I will learn as much from you if not more.

I am not sure this Tuesday will work. I need to be in Branson on Monday and may need to go to Granby for a board meeting Tuesday night. However later in the week works.

I can make it to lattie land for lunch any time and stay as long as you want but after work it would be much harder. My secretaries have to cross the Broadway bridge at rush hour going north and they say it is a bear at times, much easier going south. If you don't mind, let find a place downtown to meet if you want to do it after work. If we find the right place I'll buy you a beer.

I was planning on caching this weekend around Smithville Lake but it looks like I may be rained out. If you want to meet sometime this weekend let me know. I would be open to do anything. Maybe Sunday would work for you and others.

troy wrote:

safiri wrote:At least with Garmin MapSource, you (or at least I) cannot get the name of the WAYPOINT to not show on the map printout.

Mike, last night while trying to checkout the features Eddie has been talking about, I noticed under Edit, Preferences a checkbox option to turn on or off Waypoint names. I'll look again tonight when I get home.

Yes, I have tried this to no avail. If you figure it out, let me know.

Try it with http://home.everestkc.net/malsin/Motorcycle/test.gdb

MacWildcat wrote:Been looking thinking a purchasing a new GPS. Im using a B/W Etrex. The little joystick is starting to malfunction. Thought about getting one of the new color Etrex units. I definitely think a color unit would be nice. How do you like the 60cs? unit? It looked like the screen may be a little larger.

I really like my 60CS. The newer model, the 60CSx, is faster and has expandable memory (micro SD). The x model goes for 450 or so.

A few months back retailers were dumping the older CS models for 250 or so. At that price difference, I would be hard pressed to justify the x model for what I do. I certainly don't feel the need to upgrade.

The 56 MB memory of the CS is enough to load just a bit more than one entire state of Topo maps. Colorado, N NM, and S WY and I-70 from KC to CO all fit. The unit has served me well.

The x model has a brighter screen. Nice, especially at certain times of the day. Again, though, not sure the extra $200 is worth it IF you can still find deals on the older CS model.

If I was doing the TAT or something similar that required lots of maps to be loaded, I would upgrade. That trip is way off in my future.

troy wrote:

MacWildcat wrote:I definitely think a color unit would be nice. How do you like the 60cs? unit? It looked like the screen may be a little larger.

This is a personal choice and also depends on EXACTLY how you like to use a GPS unit.

IN MY OPINION, my Garmin GPSMap 60CS (60C, 60Cx, 60CSx) is the perfect unit for dualsport motorcycling and geocaching.

As a testimony to durability, safiri has had his 60CS mounted on his motorcycles for quite some time. (2 years?) He has beat the CRAP out of that thing including some wrecks and dunks in creek crossings. It is still working well.

I don't remember what the battery life of my 60CS is claimed to be. It takes 2 AA. I think I've changed the batteries in mine only once since I purchased it! I have 12V power when mounted on my bike, but I often run on batteries when geocaching or transferring data connected to PC. The battery life seems very good.

Mike, can you explain for the people what the "S" in the model name means. Is it the barometer functionality?

I agree with Troy.

The meaning of the letters:
C = color. I won't buy a GPS without it.
S = sensor. The S models have an electronic compass (like in the headliners of some cars, not dependent on GPS signals) and a barometer. I use mine for multiday canoe camping trips and the ability to some weather prediction (barometer along with observing clouds and wind and temps and humidity) is nice.

The compass feature is turned off on my GPS b/c it is a big drain on the battery.

Last March I did a 7.5 day canoe trip. The Barometer was set up so as to remain functional with the GPS turned off, taking a reading avery 15 minutes. The GPS was on continously for approximately 8 - 10 hours each day during daylight. I changed batteries (2 AA) around day 4 or so. Temps were between 25 and 65 oF.

Yes, I have beat up my GPS. The screen finally got a small nick last summer in Colorado on a 7 day high country off-road expedition. Small nick. Not sure how. I have been using it for about 2 years.

safiri wrote:

troy wrote:

safiri wrote:At least with Garmin MapSource, you (or at least I) cannot get the name of the WAYPOINT to not show on the map printout.

Mike, last night while trying to checkout the features Eddie has been talking about, I noticed under Edit, Preferences a checkbox option to turn on or off Waypoint names. I'll look again tonight when I get home.

Yes, I have tried this to no avail. If you figure it out, let me know.

Try it with http://home.everestkc.net/malsin/Motorcycle/test.gdb

I was able to turn off the Waypoint names, Mike. I loaded the test.gdb file. Then I picked the route FUNRUN and selected "Show selected route on map". I then tried to go to Edit / Preferences / Waypoint tab and used the "Display" dropdown to select only "Symbol" rather than "Symbol and Name". This did not work--then I realized this setting only applies to new waypoints as you create them. So then, on the left side, I clicked "Waypoints". I clicked anywhere in the list of waypoints, then use CTRL-A to select all waypoints. Then, right-click in the Waypoint window and choose Waypoint Properties. Then set the "Display" dropdown to "Symbol". Finally, simply click back onto the "Routes" tab on the left side and POOF the waypoint names are gone.

safiri wrote: Last March I did a 7.5 day canoe trip. The Barometer was set up so as to remain functional with the GPS turned off, taking a reading avery 15 minutes. The GPS was on continously for approximately 8 - 10 hours each day during daylight. I changed batteries (2 AA) around day 4 or so. Temps were between 25 and 65 oF.

Yes, I have beat up my GPS. The screen finally got a small nick last summer in Colorado on a 7 day high country off-road expedition. Small nick. Not sure how. I have been using it for about 2 years.

Mike, where did you float? Canoeing is another one of my passions! I don't know if there is a river in S mo or N ar that I have not floated. I have also done parts of the MO as will as the Kaw and a few rivers in MN and WI.

I highly recommend a screen cover. They add a little glare but will save the screen from almost everything. http://ifrogz.com/screen-protectors/gps/index.php I have one on my GPSr's as well as my PDA.

troy wrote:

safiri wrote: Yes, I have tried this to no avail. If you figure it out, let me know.

I was able to turn off the Waypoint names, Mike.

Thanks. I could swear that I have tried that before and that it didn't work. But it did work this time.

ajayhawkfan wrote:

safiri wrote: Last March I did a 7.5 day canoe trip.

Mike, where did you float? Canoeing is another one of my passions! I don't know if there is a river in S mo or N ar that I have not floated. I have also done parts of the MO as will as the Kaw and a few rivers in MN and WI.

I highly recommend a screen cover. They add a little glare but will save the screen from almost everything. http://ifrogz.com/screen-protectors/gps/index.php I have one on my GPSr's as well as my PDA.

Buffalo River, Ozark to Buffalo City (not Buffalo Point), 110 miles, 7 full days. Trip report: http://home.everestkc.net/malsin/Canoe/ ... falo06.htm

Other floats:
http://home.everestkc.net/malsin/Canoe/archive.htm

Thanks for the info on the screen cover. I wonder if this is just that 3M material guys use on cars and MCs to keep rock dings /chips from happening?

safiri wrote: Buffalo River, Ozark to Buffalo City (not Buffalo Point), 110 miles, 7 full days. Trip report: http://home.everestkc.net/malsin/Canoe/ ... falo06.htm

Other floats:
http://home.everestkc.net/malsin/Canoe/archive.htm

Thanks for the info on the screen cover. I wonder if this is just that 3M material guys use on cars and MCs to keep rock dings /chips from happening?

That sounded like a great trip. I have floated most of the Buffalo at one time or another but never so many days in a row. It is a great river. In the report you mention the lower Gauley. When did you float that? I have been trying to get to WV at the right time but it never seems I have enough time.

I am thinking of a Kaw river float from Manhattan (K State) to Lawrence (KU) this summer. Would you have any interest?

I don't know if it is the 3m stuff but it could be. Here is Invishield's web page. http://www.shieldzone.com/ I really like it.

Lower Gauley ... whitewater kayak, back in 1999 or 2000 during the fall festival. Great class 4 rapids. Upper Gauley is class V ... I don't have a desire or skill for that. I do head to Colorado every summer for a week of class III - IV whitewater kayaking in the Taylor and Arkansas rivers.