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Dang, I hope it gets rescheduled for either a Monday or Tuesday night as those are my days off.

Thanks for the update.

Rick

Anymore news on rescheduling a meeting or is this another failed attempt by KCPR to get people's interest in something that will never happen in KC? KCPR has been promising a riding area for 5 years and still no progress. Sorry I sound so modest, but I've got newpaper articles saved about KCPR promising a riding area for us.

They originally planned 6 public meetings. The first 3 were targeted directly at the off-road communities--to understand what types of off-road use people want. They did their research on these off-road uses and built a matrix of use compatibilities and feasibilities for the space. The last 3 scheduled meetings were for the "general public"--especially the people who live around Tiffany Springs and those opposed to off-road use in the area. They had 2 of those meetings and canceled the 3rd. I don't have any official insight, but my guess is they learned all they wanted from the 2 meetings so decided not to have the 3rd.

If this seems "unfair" because you did not get a chance to voice your opinion, understand that the purpose of the meetings were simply so the people hired to do the analysis could understand what the public wants. I'm sure they figured that out from the 5 meetings.

I attended the first of the general public meetings. If you go back and read my follow-up from that meeting, you'll know that in my opinion, Tiffany Springs will not have any off-road use. Nor should it in my opinion.

We'd have much better luck if we organized all the off-road enthusiasts to pool some money to hire a good legal team to work with a local land owner to setup an agreement that protects the land owner from any liability.

There are REITs that own thousands of acres within an hour of the KC metro just sitting around waiting for some future development to pay off. The land is just "wasting" away in the meantime and not producing any return on the investment. I'd bet most of these land owners would not mind off-road use of the land EXCEPT the liability involved.

2,500 off-road enthusiasts paying $100/year = $250,000 to some land owner group. Who would not take that IF they knew they'd not get sued for injuries? (Assuming they are not vehemently opposed to off-road use in general.) Do you think we could find 2,500 jeep/ATV/cart/motorcycle users in the KC metro willing to pay $100/year for a 1,000+ acre trail area within 1 hour of the metro? I do not doubt it for a second.

(Calling Mr. Jim Sherman)

The Missouri Trail Riders Association has agreements with the HUGE Deer Run Mining company that owns thousands of acres of forest. They enjoy some primo trails. We don't have forests close to KC, but there are some privately and corporately owned, "abandoned" mines in the area that would make great riding areas. We need to develop the legal and business structure and present it to these land owners. Just waiting for them to develop this for us is futile. To do this, we need to hire a legal team. To do this, we need money.

Troy, I don't know if you will ever be able to convince a land owner that they have 0 liability. There have been way too many lawsuits over the years where somebody gets sued for stupid reasons and the plaintiff wins. Consider the lady that spilled her hot coffee in her lap from McDonalds drive-thru. One of the parents on my son's baseball team was sued by a guy at our practice field because the baseball he fouled off hit his windshield. He took the parent and coach to small claims court. Don't know the outcome, but if the landowner needs to lawyer up for a lawsuit that is stupid, he is still out money. Just something for you to consider. If you will still consider this after all my negative comments, my wife works with many lawyers, I can see if she could recommend somebody to at least talk to about the subject.

Troy, There is one problem many over look in trying to find land within an hour of KC and that is zoning. All of the counties within an hour drive have zoning regulations that would be difficult if not impossible to change. I understand that is the main reason the Kansas City 4WD Association's Kansas Rocks is in Bourbon County, a county without zoning.

ajayhawkfan, good point. So although I might see a 500 acre plot of wasting land containing an abandoned strip mining operation, there could be zoning regulations that would prevent the land from being used for off-road riding. It's the man. I hate that guy.

tp, to make sure what I described is clear, we, as an organized group, would would help the land owner develop a legal arrangement. All riders would be contractually obligated to the arrangement. You are correct, even with all the t's crossed, people will still sue. The sad truth is, the point you make is reason for nobody to setup a riding area--government or otherwise. So we are our own worst enemy.

Even if a rider is contractually bound from suing for injuries, if a rider becomes a vegetable or is killed, the family will sue.

So what do we, the off-road community, do?

• Stand united as a single, responsible off-road community whether your joy is motorcycles, ATVs, Jeeps, etc.
• Stop littering and vandalizing the areas we have
• As much as possible and where appropriate, practice "tread lightly"
• Run quiet mufflers
• Smile at people more often, in general be a good "neighbor".
• Shut up and ride the areas we do have

ONe thing you need to add to your list Troy. We need to band together as off roaders. I have jeeps, fourwheelers, and dirtbikes and the riff between the three is stupid. United we stand!

Motoracer13 wrote:ONe thing you need to add to your list Troy. We need to band together as off roaders. I have jeeps, fourwheelers, and dirtbikes and the riff between the three is stupid. United we stand!

You are correct, so I did. I made it the FIRST point.

I've had a few insights into this subject. There are some incorrect assumptions these groups make about each other. For example, many ATV riders don't realize that motorcycle guys want single-track. Many ATVers think they are doing motorcycle guys a favor when they widen trails.

What can we really ever do about all the stupid and insensitive people in our off-road community? Face it, we have a lot of people who simply don't care and don't get it. "Loud pipes save lives", Beer cans hanging in trees (or "Quadbilly trail markers" as me and my motorcycle buds call them), Wallowing out mud holes, trespassing, general littering. EVERY time I've gone to a state-riding area like School Creek at Milford, I see people riding with zero gear--not even a helmet. Helmets are REQUIRED at these areas. I see people doing donuts in the parking lot spitting rocks into people and cars. I see motorcycles riding wheelies across the parking lot doing 35 mph. The parking lot has a 5MPH limit. The riding area at Kaw Lake in Oklahoma was closed for months because some idiot destroyed the bathroom house with his 4x4 truck--probably after enjoying a day of off-roading. I think you call this shooting yourself in the foot or biting the hand that feeds you.

I'd like to hold onto the hope that we can educate and make a difference. If I'm honest, though, I don't believe we'll solve this problem.