450/525 EXC KTM's

[Harvey Mushman]

I think a couple of you guys have got 450/525 EXC KaTooM's that have been dual sported. I have a line on an '06 525 EXC that is street legal and since I don't ride my RXC400 much anymore I thought about trading it and some $ for the 525. I've ridden a few 450's but never a 525.

I'd be interested in anyones response about living with these bikes for a long time, especially if you have a 525. I know about the low oil capacity and lack of cush drive, frequent valve adjustments, etc, etc (I've been told if you stay away from the rev limiter they hold their valve settings for a long time). I'm lookin' for someone that has actually owned them to give me the straight poop on it. I think a a street legal 525 might fit nicely between the 300 2t and the 620 RXC in the garage.

Thanks in advance and have a Merry Christmas all. (was that politically correct????.....)

-Harvey
#75

[kchusky]

I've had a 03 525 plated and now have a 07 525 plated. Love these bikes, more torque than a 450. Both bikes have/had been ridden to work when it's not to cold. They are a bit hard to start after being on a trailer for a few hours in 13* weather but they will start. I've been to Colo, Ark, Mo, Ok and vast parts of Ks with them. The 03 had also been raced in a few Mx's and hare scrambles. The 07 handles far better than the 03 to boot. The 06 should also handle quite well. As for valve adjustments they don't need them that often. I do change oil and filters quite often by choice. Between the two I can't ever remember having any big problems. As for the rev limiter, the 525 gets up and going without needing to hit the limiter and will pull well into the 90 mile an hour range on woods gearing (single track). And still will not be on the limiter. With the 07's stock gearing it felt like it could have ran about 105/110 miles an hour with propper jetting. I don't really like riding the hwy on them, but I run full dirt knobie tires that are dot approved. I believe with a tire that is more designed for road use it wouldn't be so bad.

[Harvey Mushman]

Does the 525 feel like a big pig on single track compared to your 200? Does the '25 have alot of compression braking when you snap the throttle shut? A buddy of mine had a CRF450 that I spent some time on before he traded for a 300XCW. The power delivery and compression braking was very abrupt and would wear you out quickly, even just trail riding. I would imagine the 525 would have alot of flywheel effect compared to your 200 and thus not turn/change direct nearly as well. Although I wouldn't expect it to go thru the woods like my 300, I wouldn;t want to have to neuter the motor with heavy flywheels, throttle cams, etc so it wouldn't eat me alive in the woods. Maybe Stu will chime in, I think he has one of these. Thanks for the reply.

-Harvey

[kchusky]

It's a bit of a pig on single track but not to bad. It is still quite race able. As compared to the 05 200, they don't compare. The 200 has mx type power and is at it's best when ridden on the pipe. Last trip to Brock Creek, Ark. I rode both bikes and had a blast on both. I was able to ride the 525 and mix it up with about 5 other riders on 450's and 250 two smokes. Once I got the 200 out I was able to pick up the pace a bit more. As far as comp. Braking it has some, but I think any four stroke you ride that is a large bore will. The 525 just needs proper jetting and the right woods gearing to be a great bike. I don't see a need for more power at least for what I use the bike for. It real comes back to the rider and what you want and are willing to deal with. I don't know if you have ever ridden the Horseshoe trail in Co.? But, I have used both bikes on this trail and have found that I can make the climb easier and faster on the 525. This is one of my favorite trails to date.

[Stu]

The 525 is an awesome bike when it is set up for the kind of riding you enjoy. I have my '07 set up for hare scrambles kind of riding and it is wonderful. The stock tires (street legal) work very well for off-road as well as on road. There are several things you need to do to get it set up correctly. After that it is a great ride. I use mine for DS riding as well and it is superior here -- light weight, fantastic & smooth power, reliability, etc.

Setting valves and other maintenance on the 525 is a no-brainer. Once you do it you know the tricks so the second time is easier. Don't let that spook you. Do remember, however, that the 525 or 530 are race bikes and as such they need race bike maintenance. If you are not ready for that you are certainly not ready for race performance either.

My 250 EXC 2-stroke beats the 525 in tight woods riding and is a whole lot more fun bashing around in the woods than the 525. However, for DS riding the 250 is without doubt one of the worst bikes possible. If you need one bike to do it all it is hard to beat the 525!

Stu

[Stu]

I would like to add that "neutering the motor" is absolutely not necessary. When the jetting & pipe combo are correct the 525 is very smooth, but also very insistent (loads of torque) so you need to know what you are doing when you fly through the tight stuff. If you are used to a 200 you will find the 525/530's power either liberating or intimidating. I love riding Beau's 200 but find my own 250 2-stroke a better bike in nasty stuff. The 525, geared 15/50, is absolute magic on rocks and faster in the woods than I can manage, and still works as a dual sport bike. It does it all.

What do you want your bike to do?

Stu

[Harvey Mushman]

I'm fortunate enough to live close to some local trails and have some friends that have dual sports that like to do single track. When I ride with these guys I ride my DS. My RXC400 or 620 will do it but is not optimum. I have an '02 EXC300 that I race in C-Vet in the FMHS series, (#77 last year, #75 for '08) and over the years have come to appreciate a light, smooth, well suspended motorcycle in the woods. Any 4 stk EXC I would buy would probably see about 30% pavement and 70% offroad. I'd really like to find a 400 as I understand the shortstroke motor has less flywheel effect and spins up quicker, similar to a 2 stroke. I've ridden some 450's and would probably buy one if it presented itself. If my usage was to be 70% pavement and 30% single track, the 525 may be more lucrative. I spent two days in Arkansas this fall eating roost off a 525 thru the woods (FCT) and he hauled azz and was effortless in doing so. Of course he rides in the 3rd row in FMHS so he's got skills I don't. We'll see. If the bike is still available next week I may go ride it just to get a taste.

Thanks for the replies

-Harvey

[Stu]

Harvey,

I should have checked back sooner on this thread. If someone is riding 3rd row in FMHS on a 525 they are going to pass me. I have watched Leigh Letellier just fly on both the 450 & 525s in the woods. I can keep up with him for 10' on my 250 2T and then he is gone. And my 250 is primo. I think this is the wrong comparison for you. The 525 is one of the most fun bikes overall you can get. If you want to keep up with Leigh you are beyond help. If you want to have fun the 525 set up properly is very difficult to beat. (Troy and his new 450 Husky might disagree and rightfully so. It all depends on what you want and what bike best delivers that for you.) My 525, not bounced off the rev limiter, need very little maintenance. Oil changes and cleaning the Scotts stainless filters is about all. My 250 2T needs even less but you do have to replace the piston with some regularity....

Stu

[troy]

If you want to keep up with Leigh you are beyond help. If you want to have fun the 525 set up properly is very difficult to beat. (Troy and his new 450 Husky might disagree and rightfully so. It all depends on what you want and what bike best delivers that for you.)

No, actually, I agree with Stu. I think the 525 is VERY difficult to beat. The 525 is probably a better bike than my TE450. For whatever reason, I was completely enamored with the fuel injection and sexy lines of this TE450. I simply could not help myself. Whether I'll recommend the TE450 for anyone else is yet to be seen. I need some time to RIDE the thing. Looks good in the garage--I can tell you that.

Stu, I look forward to having you ride my TE450 for a bit in Arkansas. I know you are hard-core orange, but I'd be interested to hear your opinion of the bike after riding it a bit.

[Harvey Mushman]

Do you guys run a fan on the radiator? have you rewound the stator? Any problems running the battery flat if the fan runs alot. I imagine you can jet it a little fat to get it to run cooler. I wouldn't ever run any heated grips or a hardwired GPS. The only electrical demand would be the lights and possibly a fan. I might put a catch tank on it. Between work and the crappy weather I haven't even had time to go test ride the thing. Just sitting on the bike though it felt smaller than my 300. I'll probably wind up riding the 620 in Arkansas. You guys can float effotlessly over the rocks, I'll plow thru 'em......

-Harvey

[troy]

Do you guys run a fan on the radiator? have you rewound the stator? Any problems running the battery flat if the fan runs alot. I imagine you can jet it a little fat to get it to run cooler. I wouldn't ever run any heated grips or a hardwired GPS. The only electrical demand would be the lights and possibly a fan. I might put a catch tank on it. Between work and the crappy weather I haven't even had time to go test ride the thing. Just sitting on the bike though it felt smaller than my 300. I'll probably wind up riding the 620 in Arkansas. You guys can float effotlessly over the rocks, I'll plow thru 'em......

-Harvey

Are you kidding me? Bring the 525 for the AR ride.

[Jeff620RXC]

I second that....bring the 525 to ARK!
It is no coincidence that a couple of yrs ago most of the guys that had the heavier bikes now have the lighter bikes. More than a handful have converted or added a lighter bike. Not that the LC4 (or any other 600 cc class) is not capable...just a lot more fun on the lighter bike.

[Hayden]

Sorry to hijack but I would like to hear your thoughts about the 300 Harvey. I think I like this bike and would love to ride one. So what year do you have? Likes, dislikes, Maintence etc.


Hayden

[kchusky]

Heading to Ar. after work tomorrow and taking the 525 and the 200. But, will mostly ride the 525 down there it's just at home in that rocky, rough, single track. I plan on hitting up a few FMHS races, but will run the 200 in those #518. I'll try not to roost ya Harvey Mushman, hehe....

[srhooter762]

Harvey, If I think you're who I think you are. I last rode with you on 06/19/04 up to Atchinson. The ride was led by dhamphill. I believe, you were on your white 620. Met donnie there, too. He was called up from the back of the pack to check out how deep a water hole was. I had a flat on my 640adv and repaired it using a portable jack. Anyway, I have the ktm hardparts radiator fan on my 450exc and no it doesn't seem to put additional strain on the battery. Most of the time when it's on and I stop the motor, it continues running for maybe a minute or so and never ran the battery down. And, yes it's jetted slightly fat. Without the fan, properly jetted, on a hot day; it would litterally boil the gas in the tank when riding 1st gear, slow speed single track. The fan, jetting, some heat tiles on the underside of the tank, an e-line carb insulator, and fmf ti-4 s/s full exhaust more than cured the overheating issue. If I remember right, the fan kit was relatively inexpensive.

Wil

[Harvey Mushman]

Heading to Ar. after work tomorrow and taking the 525 and the 200. But, will mostly ride the 525 down there it's just at home in that rocky, rough, single track. I plan on hitting up a few FMHS races, but will run the 200 in those #518. I'll try not to roost ya Harvey Mushman, hehe....

I'm used to roost, no problem. I haven't been on the 300 since C-Dale of last year, (the last race). My body is gonna hurt real bad after Milford, I can already feel it. I hope it dries up soon so I can ride at least once before the race.

-Harvey

[kchusky]

Harvey wrote;
I'm used to roost, no problem. I haven't been on the 300 since C-Dale of last year, (the last race). My body is gonna hurt real bad after Milford, I can already feel it. I hope it dries up soon so I can ride at least once before the race.

-Harvey

I'm thinking you might want to get out and ride mud or not. My guess is the first few races will be muddy. I have found that either bike works pretty well in the mud. The smoker just ends up being a lot lighter by the end of the day. I have not riden the 200 to much as of lately, maybe a hand full of times in the last 6 months. The 525 I have put on about 2200 miles in the last 6.5 months

[xr-nut]

im enjoying this back and forth here, cause i KNOW harvey.........and i can tell you that he will outride just about everybody here. on any of his bikes! its funny seeing advice for him, and i know he's chuckling too! he's just sitting back and letting it all roll in, waiting to school us all in april!

hey mush, make sure you bring the 620, you know im on the big pig- lets show these guys you dont need the latest/lightest/most powerful to blast some arkie trail! racevet is threatening to come, i told him to get on here and let t-roy know. maybe you could ride his 525 down there, im sure he'd trade you out for awhile. only downside is then you'd have to listen to his doctorate about your bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


btw-am i supposed to adjust the valves on my HONDA??!!!

[kchusky]

xr-nut wrote,
im enjoying this back and forth here, cause i KNOW harvey.........and i can tell you that he will outride just about everybody here. on any of his bikes! its funny seeing advice for him, and i know he's chuckling too! he's just sitting back and letting it all roll in, waiting to school us all in april!

hey mush, make sure you bring the 620, you know im on the big pig- lets show these guys you dont need the latest/lightest/most powerful to blast some arkie trail! racevet is threatening to come, i told him to get on here and let t-roy know. maybe you could ride his 525 down there, im sure he'd trade you out for awhile. only downside is then you'd have to listen to his doctorate about your bike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


btw-am i supposed to adjust the valves on my HONDA??!!!

Well then, OK

[Stu]

Heat problems.

My 525 has the fan under the Clarke tank which restricts airflow somewhat. In hot weather the fan runs a lot. The 450 does not heat up as much as the 525. I would put a fan kit on any 525. (If you put the 540 jug on it there is supposed to be more cooling in that barrel's jacket.)

There was a thread on KTMTalk about installing low wattage computer fans on the KTM radiators. It seemed to work very well and was about $30 for the fan, wire & in-line fuse. If you do happen to run the battery down using the fan you can always kick start it. I routinely kick start mine anyway. It is usually one or two kicks, hot or cold. Usually....

Hey, you hot shoes! Wait up for me on the trails!

Stu