Potential new rider looking for advice

[Ben Scott]

Hey all,

I'm 30 years old and have been riding street motorcycles for about 10 years now and had a dirtbike for a couple years when I was young. I'm looking for something new to add some more adventure to my life and the whole dual sport scene is exactly what i'm looking for. Ideally I'd love to be able to take some mini trips from KC to Arkansas for some trail riding and camping and once I'm comfortable and confident could trailer it a ways and do some CO/UT type riding. As of now I ride a Yamaha cruiser, before that I had a Ninja. I've been doing a bit of research recently on some of the better options and figured I'd see what you all would recommend between the below options:

VStrom
KLR650
BMW F650GS/GS Dakar
Africa Twin
KTM Adventure

Obviously there is a lot of debate as to which is the best and it all boils down to my needs, style, price point etc but i'm just looking for first hand recommendations. I'm about 6' tall, 160lbs my price range is flexible though I don't need anything brand new so staying below the $6k or so range would be nice. From what i've gathered online the BMW is the gold standard in that it kinda started the dual sport field but some of the others seem to outdo it in certain categories. The hard part is that no one bike is perfect at both street and trail so i'm looking for the one that handles them both the best keeping in mind that KC doesn't have anything to offer so I would need to do some street cruising to get where I'm going. I'm not expecting to be going down narrow/thick/gnarly tracks where i need that light nimble bike but i also don't want some super tall top heavy beast that really doesn't belong in the bush. Each of the bikes I've mentioned seem to have a lot of praise and quite the following to where there's such mixed reviews. Hoping somebody can shed some light on it for me or even propose something that isn't on my list. Thank you in advance for any intel you can give me. I'm very excited to start a new adventure, just looking for the best way to learn from others that have been in my shoes.

[ajayhawkfan]

My advice would be to start with the KLR650 to see if ADV riding is something you do like and enjoy. If you buy it right you'll be able to sell it for what you paid and then upgrade in the future.

[Hank Moody]

I agree with AJayhawkFan, you can pick a KLR and see if you like dual sporting. Another bike to consider as a starter is a Suzuki DRZ. Here is a Craigslist for a 2000 DRZ. https://kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/d ... 53759.html.

After a while you will realize there is no perfect dual sport bike and will buy a dirt bike for the Arkansas single track rides and a bigger bike for everything else. If I had an open checkbook I would get a KTM, Husqvarna or Beta 300 for the single track stuff and an Africa Twin for everything else.

Welcome to the community and hope to see you out riding soon.

[troy]

I suggest a Suzuki DR650 as a "first dualsport motorcycle". Like the KLR650 and DRZ400, they are relatively low cost, can be found used, and if you want to sell it a year later, you might get your same money back out of it.

The DR650 advantages are low cost, very easy to ride--tamer and lower seat height compared to DRZ400 or KLR, and better on highway than DRZ by far. It is comparable to a KLR650 on highway in my opinion while being much easier to handle off-road than a KLR.

I owned a KLR650 for 2 years--rode the hell out of it. Picked it up off the rocks 100 times. It's a swiss army knife that does not do any specific task well! (Let the flaming begin!)

If you told me you want to ride to AR, then ride 20+ miles of single-track and difficult ATV trails, the DRZ400 would be a better choice, but you'd not enjoy the bike much on the long ride down and back.

Once you've picked your first dualsport and have a season under your belt (or sore butt as it were), you'll probably find yourself leaning in 1 of 2 directions or both.

1. Trails. You may find what you really want is to ride the rougher trails--even if it means trailering your bike to locations with trails.

2. ADV. You may find your passion lies closer to the longer mile big bike adventures--maybe you want to ride out to CO then ride the passes for a week.

Or both, in which case, if you are like most, you'll end up with 2 bikes. For me, it was KLR650 and KS backroads, then discovered Arkansas ATV trails. My budget would only allow me one cheap motorcycle, so I sold the KLR and got an old DR350 and beat the crap out of it for a few years. Eventually, my budget allowed me to have both bikes so now I have a KTM EXC500 for the gnarly stuff and a BMW F800GS for my ADV trips.

All those bikes you listed would make you smile, so don't hesitate too long!

[ajayhawkfan]

.........
...... It's a swiss army knife that does not do any specific task well! (Let the flaming begin!)

.........

Not flaming but maybe too harsh? A KLR650 can do about any task just not very well.

I consider it a lot like a Remington 1100 20 gauge shotgun. You can hunt almost any bird with it but it is heavy to carry upland bird hunting, too small a gauge for ducks, geese and turkeys, yet is has killed millions of birds. One very positive thing about the KLR or 1100 shotgun; if you break it, you can find the parts very easily.

[troy]

.........
...... It's a swiss army knife that does not do any specific task well! (Let the flaming begin!)

.........

Not flaming but maybe too harsh? A KLR650 can do about any task just not very well.

Almost exactly what I said. Loved my KLR650, but it's not a great street bike, it's not a great off-road bike. It is a pretty darn good gravel road machine. But the compromises are too great for me to find one bike that meets all my moto needs.

Good point about KLR parts. Both the KLR650 and the DR650 are basically the same bike for the last 20+ years.

[OHjim]

If you are leaning toward the heavier end (V-Strom et al) you should also consider the CB500x. Many have taken it off-road as is (and some have put on TKC80 tires) or you could go hog wild and put the $3500 Rally-Raid kit on it. It makes it taller with more travel basically. Seems like quite a few KLR owners switched over to it and like it better. I have a similar set up (home-built from an abandoned CBR500R) and like it.

Me (yellow shirt) and my bike about half way down here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2762

[Savage]

What does a $3500 option look like?

[OHjim]

It may be closer to $3k depending on shipping costs. For the full Level 3 kit, you have to buy Level 2 (suspension) and Level 3 (wheels). http://www.rally-raidproducts.co.uk/honda-cb500x-cb500f

[Snowman]

I would agree to start light and cheap. Light because if you get into it, you will likely drop it a lot as you start to tackle the tougher stuff. Cheaper for the same reason. It seems like most people who lean towards off pavement riding end up south of 1000cc’s.

I had a klr for 18 mos before upgrading to the Africa Twin. I wish I would have started with something smaller as I think I would have been more comfortable. I love the Africa Twin and it’s extremely dirt worthy for a big bike but there are times (especially in the hairy stuff in Arkansas or Colorado ) that I was longing for a DRZ400.


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[troy]

And to snowman's point you'd rather drop a KLR on the rocks than a beautiful Africa Twin.

Likewise it does not hurt near as much to scratch up a used bike than it does a brand new bike

[Harvey Mushman]

You might also consider a Honda XR650L. It has better suspension than the KLR650 and DR650 for any off road stuff you might do and it's a simple bullet proof bike, tons of aftermarket too. I used to DS with a guy that had one and I rode it a number of times. It was all stock except he put a small handlebar mount windshield on it. I was impressed in how comfortable it was cruising at 60 mph and in competent hands, it does well off road.

The 650L's are kind of tall but since you are 6' you should be fine. They can always be lowered.
Look on craigslist as there are usually a few of them for sale.

Good luck,

[troy]

You might also consider a Honda XR650L.

I don't know why I forget about the Honda XR650L. Yes, those are a great dualsport motorcycle, and surprisingly comfortable. I had a friend who put a really comfy seat on his and would ride it on gnarly trails in AR as well as longer road trips.

Many of us wish Honda would make a dualsport (street-legal) XR650R. The R is a COMPLETELY different bike than the L. Both are wonderful, but the L is old tech while the R is aluminum frame, etc. R is off-road only in the states.

[Creekside]

Buy something yet?

All of their advice is good.

You have to think about how much time you plan to spend on pavement & off for the DS bike. If you really want to ride alot of pavement (with friends, touring, or to Ark/CO), that skews it to something like the KLR/DR/ 690 or bigger. And if your a commuter, that too. But if your more into the trails, exploring, abandoned roads and finding things others miss - go light. There is no perfect bike, but there is a good one for what you want to do. Your skill can make up for bike defects, someone like Steve Bronco can make that VStrom do things it should never do.

Two cheap bikes?

My KTM 990 is pretty scratched up from learning off road stuff. I love this bike and won't sell it, the hp(!), but I'd probably have been better served buying a pos dirt bike and learning some skills that way and put the dents and blown up bits on a used KLR. Maybe. But having had sport bikes and done track days, a KLR would be like a model T and I would just be angry riding it around. A truely excellent bike stable for me would be a KTM 350 EXC, a KTM 690 and a BMW 1200GS & full time retired. That's the dream and the reality is a 990 & working. I lean alot towards the street but love some seriously rough roads (80/20). You'll have to buy some parts from time to time. Realize you'll be dropping that bike hard sometimes. Go push it over in your driveway for practice. If you can't even think about doing that, stay on the pavement with it.

Most of the guys on this board have multiple bikes now and have owned a number of bikes too. There is a reason for that. They can talk your ears off on the pluses and minuses of any bike! They are great source of information.

[troy]

Great post, Creekside!

[Creekside]

Here more babbling from me. I don't want to work this morning.

After re-reading your post Ben, if your looking to ride out somewhere and then hit gravel roads, min maintenance, and maybe some light easy trails - your probably looking for a bigger bike.

The 800cc+&KLR (500#) are the bikes to ride from KC to Arkansas or Manhattan KS, hit some gravel, streams, camp, ride back home a few days later, or never come home. You got to know when to say when on rough stuff. You can't ride it home with the brakes missing. You can really see the scenery more out of the woods and on pavement. And cool off with a fast street breeze, and still do lost roads. Can you pick up 500#? I can. I don't worry about two pickups but then its time to head to pavement. If you can't pick it up, don't go off pavement. These bikes have really good abilities, until you slow way down, then its shows its true a pig colors.

The 500-690's midsized are for trailering there and riding harder stuff. not really fearing the streams, or the mud. Wanting more flexibility by having more pavement range to good fun dirt roads and streams. Some here ride their bikes in this range 90 miles out to hit things, but not 150. You can pick them up without worries.

WR250-XR650 smaller dirt oriented DS bikes are trailered and then ridden primarily on gravel and dirt. You won't see them blasting down highways more than 60 miles (just to get back to camp and get off the bike). Easy pickup and easy to pull the plugs to get water out. not true for some behemoth.

Most of the DS rallys you see posted (PBHR, Loose Nutz, RMAR Rocky Mountains, COBDR, or about anything on AdvRider) are mid range dirt oriented bikes (350-500-XR650). You can do those on a big bike but its hard and you maybe have to bypass parts, scratches, turn around, break stuff, ask for help. Unless the advrider rally posts its a big bike rally, its really not. Look at the last year's pics, mostly guys on sub 650 bikes. Some of those rallys are really 250-400cc rallies too. Pretty tough to take a 500# big baby on that. But there are some rallies for larger bikes and those DS rallies do post safer routes for the overweight bikes, usually.

After two one week tours in CO with a big bike, 90% of all 'trails' are too hard really and not wise on a big bike. Next time I am renting a DR, not going, or buying some plated mid-small thing. COBDR might look easy on youtube but some parts are worse than MO trails on there, and 500# is way too much for some sections (large rocks or wet), but 80% is fine with it, and 50% is too easy and I got bored as Troy warned me about the north half and left it. So its either too hard or boring for 50% for this wingnut.



You listed some bikes, and here's the 'imho' and my 2cents of hot air.

vstrom is (95/5 off road) you'll have to say no to dirt and just stick to easy gravel or break it, or its a pogo stick. Why bother for DS? Probably the best seller of all of these baring the R1200GS.
BMW650 is a rarity and what's that say about parts? Rarity is $$$.
KTM 690s much more popular now. (Nice bike. This is a 'one bike' mid bike, $10k tho. Its what the DR could be, and what the XR wishes it was, but 70hiway is still not your friend). if you got the money?
Or the KTM 500 EXC-F? For some its the one bike, even street riding (see super moto).
990/950 are great bikes with amazing abilities, after you fix stuff (you can't be afraid of wrenching - its not Japanese).
Ignore the listed craig price and low ball them. Those are not moving with 1090+ out now and the 800 coming. $7k or less even?. I just like roostering, hotroding and then spending next month taking it apart and fixing shit I busted (brake lights, brake pedal, thermostat) or checking valves.
Africa is newer but its got lots of fancy bits, the traction is amazing, but its slower. But 80vs120/150hp, how much is enough? Cheaper R1200? New probably no deals. Honda parts & prices. Not bad.
BMW 1200? Pricey. Its too much cash to mash for this guy, same for the 1090+ KTMs. Some guys do bang up those a bit but not most. I won't ride with these guys unless I know them and their abilities off road first (the guys on this board are fine, its meeting people in Ark or Co on trips and taking them as tags - and regretting it). Does cruise control really belong in the woods? And that not just this bike, but any of the big new ones. Your RTW bike. Most BMW owners won't be lowballed, too proud. $$$. Usually well taken care of.
DR, KLR - as they said above. They have owned them.

They are all great bikes for what they are intended for. back to work

[asis]

All good info!
However, have I got a deal for you
https://topeka.craigslist.org/mcy/d/klr/6333214910.html

I have had it 1 1/2 years and love the bike but I want to do shorter and more aggressive riding so I am now the proud owner of a 2018 KLX 250
I am 5'8" 130lbs geared up and I have this lowered to fit me pretty well. Problem is...I CAN NOT pick the damn thing up on my own. I have absolutely no problem riding the thing....STOPPING is the issue I have the lowering links on it that would be great until you got used to it off road, and I have all the pieces to put it back stock height.
Seems like 7 of 10 that I know and ride with broke into dual sport on a KLR...so I'd make ya a deal at 2300.00

Edit/PS: I would like to add that I rode KDX 200 in Wa. St. for 20 years off road and never needed another bike. Now I just ride pavement to get OFF pavement I feel comfortable and confident on the KLR as It does do everything well, just nothing great as long as I am moving but if I want to WOAH...Nelle wants to take a dirt nap

[WildBeane]

All of the aforementioned comments are pretty good. One thing to consider about the KLR 650 as they are prone to crank problems in certain years. For that reason alone and having been bitten by Kawasakis expensive crank prices.... I would take a good hard look at the XR650L. It's old and heavy design just like the KLR but it has a venerable motor and if you keep the oil changed their super super long life for the money you spend. The KLR has a little bit lower center of gravity and runs a little faster on wet pavement. But the XR is a much better machine in my experience. Especially, when you factor in spare parts price and availability of used equipment.