GPS - Advice for the New guy?

[MTK]

Evening Gentlemen!

With the Spring approaching do any of you seasoned veterans have recommendations on a GPS system?

I've used my phone to "avoid highways" with Google, but what about when I want to avoid the road.... or plan a very specific route that take me past my favorite sites and sodas.

I scratched together the cash for a bike but finding another $600 for a zumo isn't going to happen soon... and maybe it shouldn't... can a zumo even keep me on the trail I want?

I've read a few blogs. Tried base camp... looked into Rever... but figured someone on here has already done the research.

Care to share?

Many thanks!


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[troy]

I don't have the time or energy to write up a full memory dump, but, a couple of paths I can recommend. I am very happy with my Garmin GPSMAP 78. It's actually one designed for boats, so it floats...and it has the same features and power as the 62, but $100 less. If you know a Garmin employee, their discount can get you one for about $120.

You can get open source maps for free so no need to pony up for the Garmin maps. Garmin's basecamp is free and quite good in my opinion, but not so intuitive to get started with.

My riding buddy moved away from the Garmin 78 to a $60 Kyocera Android Walmart phone and the OSMand app combined with open source maps. This cheap, low-power phone is water resistant and he's had great luck with it so far.

My 78 is great for following tracks you have loaded. It kind of sucks if you need to find a location and re-route on the fly, but can get the job done if you are patient.

I use RideWithGPS.com to create my routes, but there are many tools people use.

[Jengel451]

Back when I lived in the mountains I would spend weeks pouring over maps trying to find the most interesting and off the beaten path routes to destinations.

For the past few years, I've been using the Garmin Montana, it's not the cheapest, but the thing is durable, and I can get multiple mounts for it for different bikes. I've had the thing pop out of it's cradle on my 450 at about 60mph and it came out virtually unscathed.

As Troy stated, you can go with a lot of open source maps, GPSfiledepot.com is a good one, donation based and I recommend you donate if you use them.

The good think about using a .gpx based unit is sharing ability. You want something that can handle SD cards and the wireless transfer is nice when you run across someone in the middle of BFE that has a better route than you mapped out. You'd be surprised how many people are running the Montana.

My defacto method of rout creation is Google maps, but they really jacked with it recently, so you have to go into www.google.com/mymaps now. I use the sat imagery to ensure that any routes I have created, are really there, there's nothing as heart pounding as getting deep in the bush, trying to push through a section and finding out that the "road" you were counting on to get you to fuel has been abandoned 30 years ago. The nice thing about the Montana is you can go into "Mountain bike" mode to try and get through to a waypoint in those situations. Yes, it works and makes for some good stories. Once you figure out your Google route, you can convert to .KML and then you can import them into BaseCamp. I still also have MapSource as there are some features there than basecamp lost. Hillmap is another cool tool so you can start to do a stare and compare.

All this being said, if you stick to the midwest, a lot of what I suggest is probably overkill.

[troy]

Agree--the Montana is a very popular choice. I also think Jengel451 needs to lead me on some favorite trails in the mountains!

You don't have to convert to KML to import into Basecamp. Basecamp directly imports and exports GPX.

I had a really hard time converting from Garmin's Mapsource to Basecamp for probably 6 months. I don't even remember what my Basecamp issues were--it's been too long--but I haven't had a need for Mapsource now in at least 3 years. That said, Basecamp is VERY different from Mapsource, and for sure, it was crap for a few months when launched.

A feature of Basecamp that is awesome and that Mapsource was sorely missing is the ability to filter a track down to 500 points. While all of the Garmin units I've used can record a track with basically unlimited points, many of the units can't load a track with more than 500 points. More correctly--they load it without any error but silently truncate it at 500 points! So then you go out riding and the 2,645 point track your buddy sent you cuts off in the middle of nowhere. I was using a third-party, open-source command line tool (GPSBabel) to filter my tracks. It all worked, but you needed a computer science degree just to manage GPX tracks. In Basecamp, you just right-click, filter, and choose max points = 500. The algorithm removes points that don't change the shape before removing any that change the precision of the track. Basecamp also made it easier to cut and splice track segments.

However, I rarely open Basecamp anymore. Like I mentioned, I use https://ridewithgps.com/ for my track/route creation. It uses Google Maps, so you have satellite imagery right there. It lets you easily create a track snapping to roads as you go, but when you need to draw your track across a creek that Google Map thinks does not go through but the satellite imagery shows a faint 2-track, you just click to "line" mode and click a straight line across the creek, then go back to "road" mode and continue your track. In Basecamp (or Mapsource), I am forced to create 2 tracks then splice them together to accomplish the same thing.

I export the GPX file from RideWithGPS, then just drag & drop it onto my SD card in my Garmin GPSMap 78. If someone wanted to go the smart phone route, they have an excellent phone app for onboard navigation and recording tracks as I understand, but I don't use it. I'd try that http://osmand.net/ app for sure if I were going the Android route.

When I need to filter a track to reduce points or convert to another format (like KML), I use the free conversion tool at http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/, which uses GPSBabel behind the curtain.

[Jengel451]

checking out that site, looks pretty good, may be the way to go now.

regarding my mountain tracks, most are up north, i'm planning a ride for this summer in Colorado hitting BlackBear pass, some other passes and some COBDR on big bikes. I've been jonesing for some high elevation primitive camping lately.

[troy]

I do pay the annual fee for RideWithGPS to unlock all the features. I feel I easily get my ROI.

A buddy & I are toying with riding the "Heart of the West Adventure Route" this year--a 2,800 mile loop through CO, ID, MT, NV, UT, WY.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/h ... ut.845500/

I'll be honest--I rode down Black Bear on my KTM 450, and all was well, but I think I'd have a sphincter spasm on my F800GS loaded with camping gear, extra fuel, etc. I know I could do it, but...people do die every year coming down that pass. I wish I was more of a real man.

[Jengel451]

damn, that looks like a good ride.

[MTK]

I agree that ride does look amazing!

I do have a friend that works for Garmin... I spoke to him the other day and he mentioned a new product they just released after acquiring another company called the inReach Explorer+.
Found here:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/561269

I'm intrigued by this because it is cheaper than the montana series, but on top of gps it also has the ability to send satellite texts and SOS signals in case my chubby self can't pull the bike out of a hole that I've ridden myself into. Anybody heard of this product?

As I'm realatively new to riding (last year) I don't know if a "serious" GPS is nescessary for a while.

I'm currently testing out a few different app based route planning solutions.
Rever - Seems like it would be cool... but my experience (for the free service) has left me wanting more.
https://rever.co/
Google Maps - I like how you can set up a route and text it to your phone... but if you deviate from it.... it will route you as normal and you lose all the fun twists and turns you want.
https://www.google.com/mymaps
Scenic - This so far seems to be my favorite. Pretty easy to play around with and offers navigation with turn by turn. It also has premium features that are only $10 a year... or a forever option for around $50.
http://www.motomappers.com/
Anyone have others? Please share!

Thanks for the details on your setups. You've given me a lot to think about. I guess the thing I really need is to ride more to see what kind of unit/app will fit my needs the best.

[Jengel451]

I've been using the InReach for a few years now. Converted from the Spot Messenger as the InReach uses the Iridium Constellation, much better coverage as I ran into some situations where I had no signal for miles on end in the northern Rockies.

Personal preference, I'm a BCDR nazi (Business Continuance/Disaster Recovery) and always think of worst case. I don't want all the things that might keep me alive on one device. I've been known to destroy things and if that thing shows me the way out, AND is the thing that can keep me in touch with someone looking for me, bad things happen. I like redundancy.

If you do decide to use the Explorer, be prepared to use a clunky user interface on the device itself, the only way I think it's really usable if via a bluetooth connected phone, and that eats batteries when our out in BFE.

[allkidd]

If money is not an issue, I think hands down the Garmin Montana is the best GPS for non pavement riding. When they first came out they were around $600. Now, you can find them online for under $400. Well worth the money rather than struggling with something that doesn't work like you want it to.

To make my own tracks, I've used other software but always end up back with Basecamp. Seems to work really good for me. Using https://www.gpsfiledepot.com/ maps and previous tracks, I'm able to draw my own tracks. If you really like the less traveled forest trails, GPS file depot, has a mapping overlay called, "my trails". I like to explore trails that have not been ridden much and my trails is a great source for making these tracks. Of course, many times the trails are now closed.

Would anybody be interested in a TAR dinner night of sharing GPS resources and knowledge? We did this several years ago and as a GPS newbie, it helped me tremendously. I still get everybody hopelessly lost, but at least now I can look at my GPS and see the location as to where I'm lost.

Let me know if there is any interest in a GPS evening.

[Jengel451]

I think that would be cool. I always learn new tricks from others.

Beraga's in Greenwood has a big ass party room on the second floor that we could use for free. You'll need your GPS to find it.

[troy]

I think that would be cool. I always learn new tricks from others.

Beraga's in Greenwood has a big ass party room on the second floor that we could use for free. You'll need your GPS to find it.

http://www.barrigaskc.com/

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Barri ... 94.3342513

[ajayhawkfan]

If the date and place work I would be happy to bring my Montana to share.

[MTK]

I would love to be able to see hands on how people use their equipment. Maybe bring a laptop and get an experts insight into base camp and other tools.


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[ajayhawkfan]

I would bring my laptop. Not that I can teach Troy anything but am willing to help with the basics.

[Jengel451]

I'll bring my InReach as well so others can get a sense as to how it works with phone tethering.

Who has a projector?

[MTK]

When are y'all talking about doing this? I can't make the dinner this month. But I'm think I'm good after that...

[Jengel451]

I probably can't do anything until 2nd week of April

[Creekside]

I second the Montana. Allkid talked me into one and never regretted it. The backtrack feature is worth a million. Basecamp! Oem free maps!

I use a Spot because i need one. Never pressed that button, but i want it in my pocket.

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[Creekside]

I now have a phone mount so i can have the best of both. Some tat guy showed me how to download maps to droid. Worthless in the fun stuff, but great in bad reception areas for highway and blacktop. But you have to put that away before the dirt.

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