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A friend (2nd rider) and I (1st rider) went down to Arkansas to meet another friend (3rd rider) and camp out this past Thursday through Sunday. The weather was nasty to say the least so it got cut short and we left Saturday afternoon.

Friday late afternoon we got a break from the heavy rain and decided to ride to Oark for some dinner. The trip to Oark was great, mostly gravel roads. All 3 of us ate dinner and enjoyed it as usual.

It was dark when we left Oark, and the fog had set in pretty good. I had some trouble getting the gps to re-route us back to camp with just staying on the pavement, but finally got it to cooperate. We road out of Oark heading west on 215 then onto 103. The visibility was very poor, maybe 15 feet at the most. Anyone that has ridden 103 knows the constand tight curves and switchbacks. It was very slow going traveling between 20 to 30 mph. Switchbacks and some curves were at 10 mph.

With all of the curves, all I could do was take a very quick look in my mirror to insure that the rider behind me was still back there. Could not tell if the 3rd rider was far behind or not. The road finally straightens out for a bit and I can start to look if the 3rd rider was coming or not. I did not see him, so i slowed down to about 10mph for a bit to see if he would pop up over the hill or not. He did not show in my mirror, so I pulled off and left the lights on. 2nd rider pulled up and said the 3rd fell waay behind and was not keeping up. About 5 minutes later, the 3rd rider pulled up to me and cussed me out about leaving him behind. I began apologize and then started to explain that I had no idea he was that far behind, and he then told me to f off and that he would find his own way back to camp. 3rd rider then gassed it and left.

Stunned, feelings hurt, we wiped down our faceshields again, geared back up and started to ride ourselves. It took us 2.5 hours to get back to camp due to having to stop because of faceshield fogging, and some gps issues wanting us to go gravel/logging road at one point. The fog heading up that way was even worse, and the deer were moving also. In the two hours that it took us to make it back to camp, the 3rd rider had managed to make it back, load up all of his camping gear and bike, and left camp to go home. No concern I guess about wheather or not we actually made it back or not.

I'm a little confused and upset over all of this. I have ridden with this guy before several times since we are what I thought, pretty good friends. I or him has always waited at the turns off of roads that we were making, etc. for everyone to catch up. I've only been riding for 3 years now. 3rd rider has been riding since a child, and is 50 yrs old now (still acts like a child sometimes too apparantely). 3rd rider was on a bmw r 1000 gs, myself and my other friend were on klr 650's.
I'm not sure that I really did anything wrong here. There was nowhere safe to pull off during that mess witht he tight curves and switchbacks. This also prevented me from babysitting all 3 in my mirror. It was all eyes on the road in this weather. Just looking for opinions on this situation I guess. Not sure what I could have done different, how I should be feeling about all of this, etc. No emails or phonecalls from him since.

You waited before he had an opportunity to get lost. We are all adults. Ride your own ride. If you can't keep up don't but it is not the other riders job to run slow just because you choose to. Only exception I can see is if it was established ahead of time to stay bunched in a group. You can't please everybody. When people can't keep up sometimes that's a hard pill for them to swallow. I try to establish what group etiquette is going to be before the ride because everyone has a different idea of what group riding should be. You should not have your feelings hurt. Everyone has crappy days and it sounds like he took his out on you.

Sounds about right. When i started to learn to ride off road, this guy and one of his buddies didn't wait on me at all because I was slow and nervous. They would just get ahead far enough that they had to stop and wait on me, or stop where there was a turn off the main trail. Simple enough to me, and I had no problems with it.

I suppose I'm going to just lay low and wait and see if he emails me one day.

All we are hearing, of course, is your side of the story. It seems clear that this was a tense situation and thus potential to ruffle nerves was high. It was dark and foggy, and perhaps cold, too? Perhaps there had been some disagreement about the wisdom of riding to dinner in the first place? (I don't know of course.) Maybe this guy had felt like a 3rd wheel in your group because of events leading up to this night? (For real or imagined reasons.) Then perhaps some tension as you futzed with your GPS. Perhaps he argued that he knew the way but you wanted to figure it out on the GPS?

My point is, perhaps he was already miffed before that tense ride to camp began. I don't have 40 years of group riding experience, but I've packed a lot into the last 7 years. It is interesting to see the different points at which people let the fatigue and frustration get the best of them.

It does not sound like you did anything wrong, but the question is how much time transpired in the time you were aware he was not visible? When I lead groups on road sections, regardless of the fact that each rider is responsible to ensure the one behind is there, I make it a point to often ensure all riders are still with the group. You cover miles fast on road so if you don't do that, you can be 10 miles away from a lost rider before the accordion affect of riders stopping touches the lead rider.

In your situation, you weren't going fast anyway....so it's not like you were likely to lose a rider due to speed. As you point out, it would have been dangerous to stop--perhaps causing you guys to run into each other or get hit by a vehicle from behind in that fog.

And ultimately, he WAS still behind you and caught up, so you didn't lose him--he wasn't wrecked off the side of the road. No harm no foul? Sounds like the guy had a bad day and you got to witness the moment of weakness, but I can't know for sure of course. I hope things reconcile, and expect they will.

Sure, its my side of the story, but I assure you its the whole story. Of course i don't know what he was thinking or feeling, but everyone was getting along and in agreement. If it was the gps problems that miffed him, then why didn't he offer to lead since he apparantely knew the way back, and pretty quick too. If I did something wrong, i want to know so that I can learn from it. I don't like making mistakes, but when I do I use it as a learning experience.

We had a good time leading up to the dinner ride. Everyone was even able to catch a nap for a few hours before hand due to a thunderstorm. The idea about the ride to dinner was brought up, and without even deciding yes or no, he was the one already getting geared up to go.
I did tell rider 2 that he should fallen behind also, then that would have forced me to stop and turn around as well. However, rider 2 insists that at 20 mph, the last guy better damn well be keeping up unless his bike breaks down. A part of me agrees, but still you have to wait on the slowest guy. I also blame the 3rd rider in part for not keeping up and trying to stay with the pack in this kind of weather. Which leads to the strangest part of all of this. Apparately he started riding pretty damned fast after he took off on us. he got back to camp, and had time to collapse and pack his tent, pack his air matress and sleeping bag, his stove, his cooler, his chair, tarp and string over the picnic table, his 5 gallon water, axe for splitting firewood, and then load his bike in the back of his truck and strap it down. All of that plus driving out of there about 30 minutes before we got back according to our neighbors. It took us 2 hrs to get back to camp. So what was the problem before then?

I hate people that can't communicate like adults. He could have just told me what was wrong and I would have gladly adjusted. I'm not perfect, but dang it I try! I just want everyone to be happy and enjoy, especially when riding.

Yep, the 2nd rider should of slowed to view the 3rd. I hate when I'm leading a ride and I stop somewhere and 1 or 2 riders are following suit, so I assume everyone see's the person behind them. Then I ask where's the rest, and the last guy has no clue where the rest of the pack is. That usually happens when the weather isn't ideal and everyone is tired.

Good points. The mistake, if there was one, was the 2nd rider not slowing down to ensure the 3rd rider was still following. "Each rider is responsible for the rider behind." As the lead, you feel a responsibility to all of the followers, but when leading 10 bikes, you may not be able to see riders 5 - 10. You rely on each rider to stop (or slow down) to ensure the rider behind is still with the group. Only when the rider behind you drops off the radar are you required to suspect a problem and stop or turn around.

With only 3 bikes, you should have been able to catch glimpses of that 3rd riders headlight on straighter sections. I probably would not let much time go by before I slowed down despite the 2nd rider on my tail. The situation Savage described has happened to me many times.

But it really does not sound like you did anything wrong...and the 3rd rider was not lost. It does seem weird that he apparently had issues keeping up in the beginning, then somehow was able to ride twice your speed the rest of the way. Maybe he had to stop to clean his goggles or adjust his luggage, etc, and expected you guys to notice and stop. In that case, if you have to blame someone, it's the 2nd rider.

Oh, and thanks for inviting folks on your rides, Jason! I guess you guys are too good for the rest of the RideForum community!

I know your ribbing me on the invite, or lack there of. I hope so anyways
Its one of those bi-annual get togethers with close friends. Unfortunately the other one couldn't show up. Its usually just the 4 or sometimes 5 of us.

JasonK94Z wrote:I know your ribbing me on the invite, or lack there of. I hope so anyways
Its one of those bi-annual get togethers with close friends. Unfortunately the other one couldn't show up. Its usually just the 4 or sometimes 5 of us.

I'm definitely kidding with you.

I have to say, all-in-all, riders are good people. I've had very few real problems with folks that show up for rides. There have been a few--very few--cases of "that's the last time I ride with that guy".

This situation should rarely happen with a group so small. Seems pretty common when you go on a ride with 8 to 10 or more, there is always one guy that "forgets" to check for the guy behind him at a turn in the road or fork in the trail. This reminds me of our trip to Colorado in 2007 when we cut off a wide forest road onto a single track trail head. There were only 4 in our group of close-knit riders and the 4th didn't see us hop off the road and kept riding for some 15 miles down the mountain. Then, as we waited for a very long time with helmets off, we got caught up in the middle of some ranchers driving dozens of cattle up the mountain, then it started sprinkling, then sleeting. As one of the tough old cowboys rode by, we asked if saw our buddy go by. He replied, "Yah, he rode right through the herd and didn't slow down, I should have lasso'd his ass and drug him down the mountain!" We just laughed about it...after that cowboy was gone, of course. Back to your situation...sounds like dude was just having a bad day and needs to get over it.

Everything you did sounds reasonable to me.
Jim

Agree with the above, I think something else was going on in the head, this just lit the fuse, some people don't understand life is short and we just need to smile!

I wouldn't worry about it, you didn't turn off the road and you didn't abandon him. It's a handfull of task juggling to lead, watch the gps, traffic, wildlife and your mirrors. One buddy has an HID headlight, another has a hi vis helmet that makes it easy to keep track of. Myself, I don't like riding at night or when the deer are moving.
Sounds like his nerves got the best of him, but it's your fault.

My First post might ruffle feathers....

I was always told to keep the guy behind you in site. If he is dropping back then slow down. Being you were first, you did nothing wrong. Your guy was with you. The guy behind you should of slowed to keep him in site. But waiting on the next straight was the right thing to do. So is waiting at the next turn. The rules of riding can vary from group to group.
On my last trip I was at Mt Washington. I was with a guy on a GS and a guy on a Super Tenere'. They were flying and it was all could do to keep up. I thrashed my KLR, but stayed with them. Going thru a fast sweeper I blew the rear tire and went into the woods. I was ok, but the Tenere' guy never stopped to see if I was ok. He just left and we did not see him until camp. It was right before dark and I ended up staying there the night. There was nothing he could of done to help me. I was not hurt. But its bad form to leave a man behind. And his excuse was he pulled over and we never came. So he went back to camp. He was from NJ(i don't need to say anymore).
When you choose to ride with people. You take responsibility for each other until the ride is over. Could you end up having a bad day? Sure. But safety is always first. Fun is second. If you have a bad time, then don't ride with that person again. I