GPS Help

[allkidd]

Motivated by Troy's GPS presentation at the May TAR meeting, I decided to purchase and learn how to use my first GPS, a Montana 600.

I've downloaded a route from dual sport maps into basecamp and the route appears to be okay on the basecamp map. When I send the route from basecamp to my device, only a small part or none of the route appears on my Montana map. I go to route planner then click on the route and then view map. The waypoints are all in my device because when I go to waypoint manager they are all there.

I know the problem is something pretty simple but I can't seem to figure it out....any help is appreciated!

[ajayhawkfan]

Motivated by Troy's GPS presentation at the May TAR meeting, I decided to purchase and learn how to use my first GPS, a Montana 600.

I've downloaded a route from dual sport maps into basecamp and the route appears to be okay on the basecamp map. When I send the route from basecamp to my device, only a small part or none of the route appears on my Montana map. I go to route planner then click on the route and then view map. The waypoints are all in my device because when I go to waypoint manager they are all there.

I know the problem is something pretty simple but I can't seem to figure it out....any help is appreciated!

If you route is long it may take a little for the route to show up. Give it time for the unit to solve the route.

What maps did you get?

[allkidd]

The first one I tried was the Maple Hill (wabaunsee) route. When that didn't work I thought maybe something was wrong with it so I loaded the Linn Valley route. They both just show the start and end only.

[troy]

I'm going to take a stab at this. What you describe sounds to me like you loaded an auto-routing route (neither a track nor a "point for every turn" route) onto a device without a map set that supports auto-routing.

When Eddie asked "What maps did you get", he did not mean what dualsportmaps.com "map". He meant the actual map--like Garmin City Streets or U.S. Topo, etc. (It's confusing that dualsportmaps.com calls a set of tracks, routes, and waypoints a "map".)

Eddie asks this because the map you have determines whether you have auto-routing or not. For example, with U.S. Topo 2008 like I have, I don't have auto-routing. That is, I can't create two points and have a route automatically created between them. If you have City Navigator or City Streets (or whatever it is called now) maps, then you get that feature.

More than that, you have to "install" the map (or at least the region where your route/track is) onto your GPS device. That is, you might have the map installed on your computer and see the route the way you expect on your computer, but if you load that route onto your device without any maps, it will be jacked up.

My second assumption based on what you describe is that the dualsportmaps.com "map" you downloaded contained a "route" instead of a "track". There are several ways to identify this. Once the GPX file is loaded in Basecamp, the bottom left panel where you see the routes, tracks, and waypoints listed will tell you whether the line is a route or a track. In dualsportmaps.com, it's kind of the same thing--the item will have either a small "tr" (trail) or "rt" (route) to the left of it in the upper left panel.

In the end, whether you want a route or a track loaded on your device (or both) depends on several factors--factors a lot of folks don't quite understand, spurring an argument or two. In any case, Basecamp lets you create a route from a track and a track from a route with one-click. Double-click a route or a track to bring up the detail window--you'll see the option near the bottom.

Tracks are straightforward--they are always just a bunch of points with a direction of travel. They do not support auto-routing or navigation assistance. That is, when viewing a track on your device, your device will not help you find the next turn or distance to destination, etc.

Routes have "smarts" built into them. With smarts, comes complexity. Complexity can breed frustration if you don't know what you are doing. Routes are just a series of points just like tracks. The difference is that your systems will actually route between the points. That is, it will see your current location on the line, find your next route point, and then use smarts to get you to that next point as efficiently as possible. The smarts come mostly from the map set you have loaded. You can put as few or as many points into a route as you want. For example, I can build a route with a point at every possible turn and bend in the road. When this route is loaded, you can be assured that regardless of the map smarts that get applied, my route will look just like what I built because there aren't any other choices it can make between my points. On the other hand, I could create a 500 mile route with only a start and end point and allow the map smarts to fill in between. It might look great on my computer, but if I put that route on my device and do not load a map with navigational smarts, the route will be a straight line on my device. Also consider that I might share the route with a buddy, but if he has a different map system loaded, the auto-routed route he ends up with may not match exactly what my maps create.

That's a lot I know...I HOPE I made it clear enough.

[clfarren5944]

That's why I like to use maps made out of paper that fold, etc.
Chris

[ajayhawkfan]

I have the same GPS. If you would like to meet and get a quick tutorial drop me an email. ajayhawkfan at yahoo dot com.

Eddie

[allkidd]

I'm going to take a stab at this. What you describe sounds to me like you loaded an auto-routing route (neither a track nor a "point for every turn" route) onto a device without a map set that supports auto-routing.

When Eddie asked "What maps did you get", he did not mean what dualsportmaps.com "map". He meant the actual map--like Garmin City Streets or U.S. Topo, etc. (It's confusing that dualsportmaps.com calls a set of tracks, routes, and waypoints a "map".)

Eddie asks this because the map you have determines whether you have auto-routing or not. For example, with U.S. Topo 2008 like I have, I don't have auto-routing. That is, I can't create two points and have a route automatically created between them. If you have City Navigator or City Streets (or whatever it is called now) maps, then you get that feature.

More than that, you have to "install" the map (or at least the region where your route/track is) onto your GPS device. That is, you might have the map installed on your computer and see the route the way you expect on your computer, but if you load that route onto your device without any maps, it will be jacked up.

My second assumption based on what you describe is that the dualsportmaps.com "map" you downloaded contained a "route" instead of a "track". There are several ways to identify this. Once the GPX file is loaded in Basecamp, the bottom left panel where you see the routes, tracks, and waypoints listed will tell you whether the line is a route or a track. In dualsportmaps.com, it's kind of the same thing--the item will have either a small "tr" (trail) or "rt" (route) to the left of it in the upper left panel.

In the end, whether you want a route or a track loaded on your device (or both) depends on several factors--factors a lot of folks don't quite understand, spurring an argument or two. In any case, Basecamp lets you create a route from a track and a track from a route with one-click. Double-click a route or a track to bring up the detail window--you'll see the option near the bottom.

Tracks are straightforward--they are always just a bunch of points with a direction of travel. They do not support auto-routing or navigation assistance. That is, when viewing a track on your device, your device will not help you find the next turn or distance to destination, etc.

Routes have "smarts" built into them. With smarts, comes complexity. Complexity can breed frustration if you don't know what you are doing. Routes are just a series of points just like tracks. The difference is that your systems will actually route between the points. That is, it will see your current location on the line, find your next route point, and then use smarts to get you to that next point as efficiently as possible. The smarts come mostly from the map set you have loaded. You can put as few or as many points into a route as you want. For example, I can build a route with a point at every possible turn and bend in the road. When this route is loaded, you can be assured that regardless of the map smarts that get applied, my route will look just like what I built because there aren't any other choices it can make between my points. On the other hand, I could create a 500 mile route with only a start and end point and allow the map smarts to fill in between. It might look great on my computer, but if I put that route on my device and do not load a map with navigational smarts, the route will be a straight line on my device. Also consider that I might share the route with a buddy, but if he has a different map system loaded, the auto-routed route he ends up with may not match exactly what my maps create.

That's a lot I know...I HOPE I made it clear enough.

It worked! You were exactly right....my map is the GPS File Depot Kansas Topo and it was a route that I was trying to load from basecamp to my device. It would show all the waypoints but maybe I don't have that auto-routing to connect the waypoints?? Although, I used the same KS Topo map in basecamp where it did connect all the waypoints. Anyway, after reading your post, from Basecamp I converted that route to a track and then sent it to my device and it appeared!

Seems like for using a GPS just to follow a pre-determined set of turns on trails or low maintenance roads that a track would be preferable. Again, I'm a newbie, but if the big advantage of routes is to re-route when you get off the route, yet if the Topo map does not support this auto routing then it seems that a track would be just as good or better.

Regardless, I'm thrilled that I can now get tracks onto my device....I would not have figured this out without your help!

Thanks!

[ajayhawkfan]

You can buy GPSr without maps that are routable. Garmin's routable maps are about $100. I found this link for FREE routable maps. I have not tried them so I don't know if they are good but for those without routable maps there is nothing to lose if they don't work.

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/

[allkidd]

Thanks Eddie....I will give them a try. The Harley video was hilarious!

[ajayhawkfan]

Thanks Eddie....I will give them a try. The Harley video was hilarious!

Randy, I thought it was funny. Let us know if the maps work.

[Foster]

The maps work well. The only issue that I had was that if you want a new set covering a different area but have already installed one set, it replaces the old set. The other issue I am having currently is hopefully unrelated.

My 62S died 3800 miles into my 7000 miles of riding last month while running those maps and now requires a master reset to turn on again. I think this is an unrelated, although extremely frustrating, issue. If anyone has had this happen and knows how to get my 62S working again please let me know. It shuts down half way through the boot up cycle when the unit is first powered on. As a result, I spent the remainder of my trip navigating via paper maps. I know, crazy isn't it!?! It was awesome none the less!

[ajayhawkfan]

The maps work well. The only issue that I had was that if you want a new set covering a different area but have already installed one set, it replaces the old set. The other issue I am having currently is hopefully unrelated.

My 62S died 3800 miles into my 7000 miles of riding last month while running those maps and now requires a master reset to turn on again. I think this is an unrelated, although extremely frustrating, issue. If anyone has had this happen and knows how to get my 62S working again please let me know. It shuts down half way through the boot up cycle when the unit is first powered on. As a result, I spent the remainder of my trip navigating via paper maps. I know, crazy isn't it!?! It was awesome none the less!

7000 mile trip, where did you go?

Take it to the service area at Garmin. Let them fix it.

[troy]

My 62S died 3800 miles into my 7000 miles of riding last month...

Did you get your GPS fixed?

Have you created a ride report on your blog or elsewhere? Link?

[Foster]

Still working on ride report. I saw a ton of stuff but the ride went so well that I felt that it wasn't all that exciting of a ride report so I didn't post a link up here yet. I rode from here to Maine and Americade in Lake George, New York then back home for a week. Then out to California and Las Vegas by a very scenic/ LONG route. I had a much better ride through the Southwest than I did the North East. It rained every day I was anywhere east of Ohio. I will get my butt in gear on the photos though and post the link in the next couple weeks. There are already photos up for Americade:

http://www.f0ster.com/2012/06/americade.html

Las Vegas has MUCH better photos thanks to AWESOME weather! Triple digits or not, I'll take it over rain and 40F ANY day of the week!


I fixed my gps. Master reset on the 62S only deletes a minimal amount of data and I have had no trouble since I did it. Hold down page and enter while powering on the unit and release once the unit is on. No problems since I did it.

[troy]

A few things I've noticed...

1. I was working in Basecamp and my Android phone was low on battery so I plugged in the USB cable. Basecamp saw the USB drive and scanned it. After quite some time, the photos stored on my phone popped up on my map in roughly the correct locations where I took the photos. Interesting. Cool. Not sure exactly what I can or would do with that.

2. The latest Basecamp update includes integration with Garmin Adventures. I'm not sure exactly what this is yet, but it appears to be Garmin's attempt at providing a social engine to share your adventures (tracks, photos, waypoints?). If done well, it could be a cool way to do ride reports and share tracks, but I've not looked at it yet and probably won't anytime soon. If one of you gets familiar with it, give us a review.

3. For the time being, I'm done with the dualsportmaps.com web app I previously bragged about. It's just too buggy right now. The developer is a great guy and doing all of this for free, but he is not always the best in quality control or listening to the user demands. That is his right of course--he makes it clear he maintains the tool for his own use and if others find it useful that is gravy. He might read this and be pissed, but that's my impression at this time.