Riding Dry Creek Beds.

[ajayhawkfan]

I am bring this up because I saw this subject on Backroads Touring KS forum.

In Kansas the only public waterways are the Missouri, Arkansas, Kansas and Fall Rivers. All other rivers and streams are private property and if caught you could be prosecuted for trespass.

As I wrote on the other sight if I caught someone I would prosecute. Here is what I wrote and the reasoning:

Both Bearcat and Mr. Clean are correct. The land owner owns the creek so if you are riding a creek bed you are trespassing and if I caught you in the mood I am in now it would cost you. I would try to have you arrested and bikes impounded.

The reason I'm so pissed: this weekend, I had some out of state customers come to scout some of my private property for the upcoming deer season. The first thing I notice was someone cut the chain on my gate. While showing them around I found (and removed) a game camera and a couple of tree stands. I also saw they had been riding 4 wheelers around my place including up and down the creek and through the pools of water.

I did leave a note at the gate and where I removed the camera and stands telling whoever put them up to call me if they wanted then back. I'll meet them at the sheriff office to exchange for a criminal trespass citation.

I bet I don't hear from them.

[troy]

Damn. That game camera cost me $180 and the 2 tree stands were just over $100 each. The heavy-duty bolt cutter was $50. These land owners are getting downright hard to deal with anymore.

Seriously though, that is stupid gutsy---cutting a chain, setting up tree stands--wow.

[ajayhawkfan]

Keep in mind, I'm a land owner and a rider and being both I believe I was more understanding then the typical landowner. However, I HAVE HAD IT with people that don't respect private property be it hunter, hikers, fisherman or RIDERS.

I am now putting in effort to catch trespassers and if I do I will prosecute.

As I said, I believe I was one of the more understanding land owners in my area. Now I'm with the majority and look at all non-land owners as potential problems.

[troy]

What are the odds the game camera snapped a photo of the perp(s)?

[ajayhawkfan]

What are the odds the game camera snapped a photo of the perp(s)?

Already checked however, the camera maybe put back into service at the gate they cut.

[Hayden]

I have lots of problems too ajay. I live on a 1260 acre ranch that I have worked on for the last 4 years. Last year a week after the last gun season I had 2 guys poach a hugh buck in my back yard. I watched them do it about a half hr after sundown. I yelled, screamed and jumped in the truck to give chase. I lost them, went back to where they shot off the road and waited. They came back. Gave chase again clear into the next county. I have also caught and stopped 3 spot lighters this summer. Cops came all three times. Its a constant battle with poachers and Trespassers. I hate to be an ass but this is what the land owner expects of me as part of my duties for living there. I just dread deer season now. Chasing off people is a full time job and takes away from other things I need to be doing. And you are right. If I found someone riding our creeks on the Ranch, I would have them arrested too. Its not public land to do as you please. Plus they will NEVER come and ask to ride thier 4 wheeler around. LOL. I have yet to find a camera but they will drive around on the property sometimes. Last year I had a guy drive down 2 miles of wheat field. Right down the dam middle of it. Its crazy. Its like....WHAT THE F are you thinking?

Hayden.

I did find and kept the big Buck.

[ajayhawkfan]

I have run deer and turkey hunters off every year and never got the law involved. That has changed. I will call the cops or game wardens on anyone I see now.

Late summer my brother found two gut shot bucks on his farm in Linn County. They were young deer in velvet. I think they were shot to be shot.

On some property in Bourbon County two seasons ago I saw some crows flying around, I assumed it was something dead and it was, a dead buck with it's head cut off.

About 5 years ago I caught two people from the State of Washington deer hunting on my ranch in Bourbon County. They said they paid big dollars and a outfitter put them on my place. I told them no outfitters have access. They were upset but left. The next day I found them on the far side of the property. Again they told me an outfitter put them there. I followed them to the "outfitter" and he said they did not follow his instructions. They were HOT. I left and let them deal with him. (He did end of going to jail for poaching deer to give to his hunters if they did not get a big one.)

Never did I contact the law. As I said, that has changed now. I will travel with cameras to photo everything and call the police.

[Hayden]

Yep, thats what I love so much about my HTC EVO phone. Snap pics of car plates, tire tracks, shoe prints in the dirt, video, internet, GPS, Goggle Maps. I told a kid spotlight'n one night when I walked up to talk to him that I had already taken a pic of his tag. So if wanted to drive off, go for it but I already had the cops in root. He ended up just waiting around. Its nice because i dont even have to remember a tag #. I just make a memo recording of it. App is on the front page of my phone. Makes it pretty easy that way.

Hayden.

[safiri]

Yep, thats what I love so much about my HTC EVO phone. Snap pics of car plates, tire tracks, shoe prints in the dirt, video, internet, GPS, Goggle Maps. I told a kid spotlight'n one night when I walked up to talk to him that I had already taken a pic of his tag. So if wanted to drive off, go for it but I already had the cops in root. He ended up just waiting around. Its nice because i dont even have to remember a tag #. I just make a memo recording of it. App is on the front page of my phone. Makes it pretty easy that way.

Hayden.

And he shoots you, takes your phone, and drives off.

Most dangerous job in law enforcement is being a possum cop. Almost all you approach are remote, armed, ready to shoot, and already breaking the law.

Tracy, I would like to have you around a few more years.

[troy]

Yep, thats what I love so much about my HTC EVO phone. Snap pics of car plates, tire tracks, shoe prints in the dirt, video, internet, GPS, Goggle Maps. I told a kid spotlight'n one night when I walked up to talk to him that I had already taken a pic of his tag. So if wanted to drive off, go for it but I already had the cops in root. He ended up just waiting around. Its nice because i dont even have to remember a tag #. I just make a memo recording of it. App is on the front page of my phone. Makes it pretty easy that way.

Hayden.

And he shoots you, takes your phone, and drives off.

Most dangerous job in law enforcement is being a possum cop. Almost all you approach are remote, armed, ready to shoot, and already breaking the law.

Tracy, I would like to have you around a few more years.

I'm glad you said it. I think I would leave it at sneaking a photo of the plate or a vehicle description and call it in. Like Mike said--you are dealing with armed law-breakers in a remote location. Then again, I am a big P.

[ajayhawkfan]

Tracy, I would like to have you around a few more years.

Only Tracy?

[MacWildcat]

I used to live in a border county to Sedgwick county.... and that's where most of our problems originated from. The situation was really escalating when the "illegals" starting getting aggressive when confronted.
Back then digital cameras didn't exist. if a farmer found a unauthorized vehicle on their land, they pulled several valve stems and then called the sheriff. Or even better, the no hunting sign beside their truck would end up through their windshield.

I agree with you folks, the best deterrent would be prosecution. Too bad the state won't get involved by permanently revoking hunting licenses, and banning out of state offenders.

[MacWildcat]

..... we have probably all been on the other end of this situation also. When you get confronted by a overzealous landowner being a ***hole when you are actually on public property.
This has happened to me a couple times in the flint hills.... "buddy you may own the land on both sides, the the road in between is public property". I usually explain I'm actually doing them a service traveling the seldom used roads. I will report suspicious activity I see, possibly protect their property.
A couple years ago I broke down on a low maintenance road in 20 degree weather. I had 3 ranchers drive by me without even rolling down a window to see if I was ok. Last year as I reported on this site, I had a minor crash caused by a landowner stretching 3 strands of barb wire across a public road. This is actually a common practice you can see around tuttle lake in the winter. I have to hold myself back from taking the matter into my own hands and tearing down their fences.

[safiri]

Tracy, I would like to have you around a few more years.

Only Tracy?

Well ... you, too.

Yes, you did walk up on some hunters on your land but at least you weren't walking up on spotlighters (implying darkness and knowingly breaking game laws vs. trespass laws) or chasing down vehicles.

[safiri]

Hey, I just realized AJayHawkFan dosn't have a problem with us riding in WET creek beds.

[troy]

Or...you may face what absent land owners in the Mark Twain forest do:
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/11/05/32 ... rylink=rss

Link (of http://freemanoffroad.com/) told us that the locals down there will burn you out if you cross them. The scenario, as I understand it goes something like this:

1. Locals hunt the land for decades
2. Rich city dude buys 100 acres, puts up a fence and NO TRESPASSING signs
3. Rich dude does nothing with the land and is absent
4. Rich dude does not allow locals to hunt the land
5. Locals burn the land down and anything on it --camping trailers, storage sheds, etc.

There is "being right and legal" and then there is not pissing off someone who has no issue with cutting your throat. As a personal policy, I don't get into fights with stupid or crazy. Those are odds I can't beat.