New standard for DS bikes?

[MacWildcat]

CycleWorld magazine has a article on the newest hot street legal dirtbike - Husqvarna TE250.

This sounds like one heck of a bike. KTM and other are going to have to step up if they plan to compete. More than $1100 less than KTM closest model (450 exc), lighter (250 lbs), and fuel injected. Gosh, wish I had $7600 laying around.

Only issue I saw was a 1.9 gallon tank. Have to make sure the tank is full just to go to the grocery store. I'm sure a after marketeer will fix that in a hurry.


Couple years ago I looked at the KLX250s. Looked good on the surface. I then realized it was only 10 lbs. lighter than a DRZ400, and mucho less horsepower.

[troy]

I'm not an expert on the Husqvarna line, but I do own a 2008 TE450 and try to follow what Husky is doing with new models. 2008 was the first year for fuel injection. I took a risk on the new design, but I got to tell you, she's been a fantastic machine. I think the best compliment I've had for the TE450 was when Stu rode it for about 20 minutes at Perry OHV. After testing the bike, he had a huge grin and told me, "don't change a thing!" He then (perhaps jokingly?) offered to trade me his KTM 525EXC. (By the way, Stu's 250 is magical!) This coming from a man who can out-ride most of us and who spends months upon months tweaking his KTM race machines to get them just right---meant a lot to me.

I had a hard time choosing between the 250 and 450, but since you can't test ride anything, I chose the 450 as a safer choice for myself. Turns out quite a few people have considered the 250 to be a bit weak and have bored it out to a 300. Well, Husqvarna responded by offering a 250 and a 310. Then, for 2010, they redesigned the 250 to shave off weight and give it more power. They were using the same bottom end for the entire TE line. Turns out that heavy bottom end that was required by the 510 is more than what the little 250 needs.

The 510, but the way is considered a "trench digger" by some! It is a monster. I had to tame my 450 down with an aggressive throttle cam. Note that I am not very skilled nor am I an aggressive rider. I have more bike than I really know what to do with. The 250 probably would have worked well for me.

Regarding the 1.9g tank. I can get about 70 miles out of it plus I carry a 1 liter bottle on my front fender. I secure it with an empty fender bag--works really well. I can get total range pushing 80 miles or so.

There is currently only one after market tank and it has issues from what I hear. What makes it slightly more difficult is that the fuel pump required for the fuel injection is INSIDE the gas tank.

Long story short--I'm definitely a fan of the Husqvarna TE line, but my advice to fellow riders is that KTM is pretty darn hard to beat and with a KTM, you have LOTS of after-market options and local dealer support. I've never met someone who "upgraded" from a KTM to a Husqvarna.

That said, if anyone is seriously interested in Husqvarna, the best dealer in the midwest is Halls Cycle in Springfield, IL. Small shop with HUGE service and support of Husqvarna.
http://halls-cycles.com/

[Hank Moody]

Okay, I really have nothing but good things to say about KTMs. Like Troy said there is a HUGE after market support for KTMs and a local dealership.

BUT... Husqvarna does have after market support (not as big as KTM) and a great following of fellow riders. Granted there is no dealer in Missouri or Kansas, but when was the last time you had to take your bike into a dealership for repairs?

I consider myself a slightly below average wrench and I have had my bike for 4 years and have done all the repairs need myself or with the assistance of fellow riders. Parts are a phone call away and from Halls are usually at my door in 2 days.

In short you can't go wrong with either brand, just get out there and ride!

Troy failed to mentioned that Stu said that 3rd gear was "magical" and the entire TE line has been street legal since 2006.

There seems to be a little bit of a movement away from the 4 strokes with some of the better riders like XR Nut to 2 stroke machines (KTM 300). One big time Husky rider in the NW was went from 450 --> 310 4 stroke and is now in Love with his latest ride a 125 2 stroke.

Just makes you want to go out and buy a new bike for spring, if it ever gets here....

[troy]

It does seem like the major shift towards tiny 2-strokes has just started in the last 2 years. I'm a less is more kind of guys, so I like the idea of it.

I like these quotes from Mark "Big Dog" Sampson's signature on AdvRider.com:

Why in the heck did you buy a 250 ?? "Because they were all out of 175's"
"The less the merrier"
"The older I get--the bigger my rear sprocket gets"
"It takes 12 HP to ride around the world--the rest is wheelspin"

[phil denk]

It's my understanding that Husqvarna will be marketing a street legal 250 two stroke in Europe this year. Those of us who rode open class two strokes back in the day will attest to the awesome throttle response of those bikes...Hopefully they'll come back...!!!

[MacWildcat]

The most recent models of two-strokers I had experience with were from the 70's and early eighties.
I'm sure (hope) some of the quirks have been worked out. I had Suzuki 250 and 400 cc strokers. Unpredictable power curves were the norm. "No guts, no Glory" (or was it spilled guts, so gory) was the mantra. Always interesting to find out if you would bog out on a hill climb or sky the top!
The one thing I do remember was the smaller two strokers were no fun in tight or hill climb situations. The 250 or 400 thumpers could grunt themselves out of a situation, the 125 were finicky.

The folks with modern day 2 strokes..... have they figured out how to manage the power curve, and do the woods oriented bikes use a heavier flywheel to help settles thing down?

I was under the impression the 2 strokes were on the way out due environmental concerns. A few years ago, dealers had great deals because they couldn't move their inventory. Lots of rumors about 2 strokes eventually being banned from racing and also from use on public land?

I loved my 2 strokes (bikes) Been a long time since I swung my leg over one. I remember being adamant I would never own a 4 stroke dirt bike. The first ones were pretty lackluster compared to the 2 strokers. Weird if things swing back......... almost bought a Suzuki 2 stroke street bike. I think they called them the water buffalo. Water-cooled, two-stroke GT750?

Maybe a rebirth of the Wankel engine? (RX-8) I had a Mazda pickup with the RX-7 engine - very fast mini pickup.

[Stu]

Troy, thanks for the compliment! If I had your 450 Husky I would just hang onto it. Just as I am hanging onto my '07 525 even though it can be a beast in certain situations (really tight woods) it can be simply perfect in others (the White Rim Trial).

My '09 300 XC-W is a real winner in tight woods. It isn't much on longer & more open trails if they have some pavement thrown in as well.

I do not think contemporary small bore 2-strokes are lacking anywhere. The KTM 200 will climb anything any other bike will. You just have to be a bit more aggressive and go for it.

The new 4 stroke of note is the new KTM 350 -- as light as the 250 but a lot more torque. Next year could well be a new XC-W version for cross country riders and if so you will be in line behind me getting one. It has FI.

Government regulations regarding exhaust emissions will determine the future of light weight 2-stroke DS bikes here. KTM is working on a direct injection version of the 300. Reportedly it has been tested in Europe. If there is a release I would think that it would be 2013/14 before we would see one. A guess.

No telling what the newly funded Husqvarna has up their sleeves. No doubt the Euros will give us great DS bikes with better performance and lighter weight than what it currently available elsewhere.

China is now producing 400 DS bikes for the home market. They are not up to even the least aggressive riding standards we require. When I was in China about 1 1/2 years ago I asked a dealer about one of the new 600 singles that was just out. He asked me what I had. I told him a KTM 525. "Why would you want our overweight, slow pig of a bike that breaks if you have a KTM?" he asked.

Stu

[BGG]

Do I hear a vote for a Rotary powered dirt bike??? Wouldn't that be something?

No really, after a hard day in Moab I have often wonderd If I could have done everything on a 175lb 175cc bike. Sure the wheel spin would be gone, but when you are in the back country you tend to keep things turned down. I bet that with lighter wieght, less power that I would end up less tired and having just as much fun on the exact same trails.

Still not selling my 450exc any time soon .......

[Stu]

I would like to comment on a small bike in Moab. I rode my 300 up the rock ledges on both trails for the Top of the World trail. Fun! doesn't do it justice. I could have ridden my 525 up there since it was on the trailer but, hey, nasty rock ledges just spoke to that 300.

The 525 on the more open Shafer, White Rim and other trails was definitely the way to go. I could keep it in mid-range (most of the time) and still fly low and get great mileage (about 55 mpg, not something you would get on a smaller bike). The longer ride was simply not wearing on it. We left Moab at 6:30 AM to avoid the heat (didn't work) and got back at 2:30 with 110 degree heat so the 525 was definitely a plus for comfort and straight, pleasurable runs thru deep sand where the 525 beats any smaller bike I have ridden. After a growler of the local brewpub's porter we were ready to go again, but we refrained.

If I had only one bike for my DS riding it would be the 525. The 450s are superb but the 525 is better in my opinion with the better torque curve.

Stu

[Stu]

I should add that we came back to Moab down Hidden Canyon. We were told not to do that since spring rains had made the top of the trail impassable. Just before we dived off into it a jeep guy in a tricked out Rubicon said he would not go down or up it anymore. Sounded good to us and we headed down. It was filled with white sand and had eroded nearly 75 degrees in some sections. There were numerous rock ledges with eroded holes below them that would stop a 21" tire and toss you off. So we slid, blipped the throttle to clear the holes below the ledges and repeated that. Just too cool. And the 525 could pick up the front end on those steep downhill angles, something a smaller bike could not do.

Stu

[BGG]

Not to hijack this thread, but...........

I first went to Moab a husky 610te e. To big and heavy for my inexsperianced riding ability. It wasn't good and was off hunting catus more than once!!
Next trip was on a 450 exc (just a 525 without as much wheel spin!!) and it was a much better trip.
After the same Growler of local porter from Moab brewing no doubt I was left wondering what another reduction in CC's would be like.
Ulike you The 450 is the smallest bike I have ridden and it sounds like it is the "sweet spot" for our DS riding.
I value youre opinion having ridden smaller bikes and bet that my 175 idea would not work on nice long rides like the White rim. Porcupine rim on the other hand........
Now where the hecks that spell check at?????.......